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1

Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 3:50pm

Argentine Battlecruiser Design Competition

During the last months of the war the German HDW yard offered two informal design studies of a replacement for the sunken Pampas. Later on rumors of a design competition worth a large contract encouraged India to seek a potential Argentine contract to replace the cancelled Peruvian Guise. All this reinforced the new Naval Staff's decision to build another capital unit to retain four ships in operation.

The Naval Staff has issued an Operational -Tactical Requirement (OTR) for a replacement battlecruiser to replace the sunken Pampas. The OTR outlines the ship’s mission and desired characteristics. The OTR was sent to the Naval Constructors Board and the Scientific – Technical Research Committee. The Naval Constructors Board assigned the OTR to the Battleship Project Design Team.
A Pre-design sketch by the Project Design Team was studied by Naval Constructors Board and Scientific – Technical Research Committee (STRC) and evaluated for weaknesses and cost.
The Technical - Tactical Requirement (TTR) was then released to refine the Project (number assigned is Project 118 for the Argentine design and Project 117A onwards for any foreign design). Project 118 shall remain classified but will be used as a benchmark for comparison with the foreign applications.

TTR Requirements

Displacement:
Left open to builder’s designers

Dimensions:
The design must not exceed 220 metres waterline length if possible

Armament:
Main guns can comprise all calibres from 11in to -15in, any 15 inch designs must be designed to accept the Chilean 15 in gun (771kg shells), 100-150rpg. Nine guns in triple turrets preferred, two twins are unacceptable but three twins is a suitable alternative
Secondary armament must consist of Argentine 115mm DP guns (25 kg shells)
AA Armament will consist of twin or quad 37mm mounts and two-four sextuple 20mm mounts, additional singles are acceptable
Torpedoes are not part of the desired armament but can be added as long as the gunnery fit is not compromised

Armour:
Decks and armour must withstand 12in to 13in gunfire
Torpedo bulkheads must consist of a layered system as follows; one 25mm armoured bulkhead, void,25mm bulkhead, fuel, void, 10mm splinter bulkhead
Conning tower to be protected by 3-4in of armour
115mm gun houses are protected by 50-25mm armour, the hoists must be armoured
Sextuple 20mm mounts feature 12mm thick armoured face plates

Powerplant and Performance:
Maximum speed preferred is 32kts (higher if possible but not at the detriment to armour) and the lowest acceptable is 30kts
Range must exceed 7,000nm at 15kts
Powerplant to comprise steam turbines and oil fired boilers; electric drive will be studied as will cruising diesels if this aids cruising endurance

Other Design Factors:
Seakeeping must be at least 1.20 if possible
A catapult and two seaplanes to be carried
Weight is to be set aside for radar equipment
To be fitted for flagship duties

2

Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 4:13pm

60mm torpedo bulkhead? Pretty substantial.....

3

Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 4:14pm

The Vickers concern wishing to enter the South American market offers a powerful, if expensive, design based on the V Class battlecruisers.
Vickers seeing the anti-torpedo system proposed instead offers thicknesses of two 0.5in armoured bulkheads and one final 1in plate to stop any splinters. They feel this will be a suitable alternative to save weight. [Note they probably know more than the Argentine planners about underwater protection]

Vickers Export Battlecruiser, Great Britain/ Argentina Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
37,671 t light; 39,425 t standard; 41,995 t normal; 44,051 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
811.47 ft / 806.00 ft x 106.00 ft x 31.80 ft (normal load)
247.33 m / 245.67 m x 32.31 m x 9.69 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,699.76lbs / 771.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x6 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,224 lbs / 7,359 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
4th: 0.47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 135,000 shp / 100,710 Kw = 30.36 kts
Range 8,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,627 tons

Complement:
1,466 - 1,906

Cost:
£19.198 million / $76.791 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,997 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 15,022 tons, 35.8 %
- Belts: 5,854 tons, 13.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,066 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 2,331 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 5,693 tons, 13.6 %
- Conning Tower: 78 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,742 tons, 8.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,711 tons, 39.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,324 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
65,987 lbs / 29,931 Kg = 39.1 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.541
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.97 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.00 ft / 9.45 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (70 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 23.65 ft / 7.21 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184.6 %
Waterplane Area: 61,542 Square feet or 5,717 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 965 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.33
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight
One catapult (25 tons)
Two seaplanes (50 tons)
Radar (20 tons)
Growth (105 tons)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Hood" (Nov 22nd 2008, 4:17pm)


4

Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 6:28pm

And Vickers is out of the competition by more than 20m by your own specs, Hood!!!

5

Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 8:39pm

Chile knows how hard it is to fit those specs, or similar specs, onto a 220m hull. Something has to give somewhere, guns, speed, or armor... or the specs themselves. :P (All design is compromise!)

This will take some serious work. I had some similar thoughts when I started looking at Chile, and I'm kinda concluding that my own 220m limit is going be the thing which breaks first.

6

Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 10:28pm

A Danish attempt

The speed had to take a hit to get it all in!!
------------------------------------------------------------

Theoretical, Argentinian BB laid down 1937

Displacement:
38,307 t light; 40,252 t standard; 42,500 t normal; 44,298 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
728.35 ft / 721.78 ft x 104.99 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
222.00 m / 220.00 m x 32.00 m x 10.00 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,699.76lbs / 771.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (1x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 12 raised mounts
48 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,194 lbs / 7,346 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
3rd: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
5th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -

- Armour deck: 5.91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 4.92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 137,769 shp / 102,776 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,046 tons

Complement:
1,479 - 1,923

Cost:
£19.441 million / $77.763 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,010 tons, 4.7 %
Armour: 15,147 tons, 35.6 %
- Belts: 4,132 tons, 9.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 941 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 3,644 tons, 8.6 %
- Armour Deck: 6,301 tons, 14.8 %
- Conning Tower: 129 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 3,818 tons, 9.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,731 tons, 39.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,193 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
68,390 lbs / 31,021 Kg = 40.5 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.598
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Stern: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 28.63 ft / 8.73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 203.4 %
Waterplane Area: 57,670 Square feet or 5,358 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 991 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.91
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo bulkhead is 20mm-30mm arrangement.
Transon mounted catapult with 3 aircraft carried.
Sufficent misc weight for flag facilities and Radar.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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7

Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 9:06am

RE: Argentine Battlecruiser Design Competition

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Later on rumors of a design competition worth a large contract encouraged India to seek a potential Argentine contract to replace the cancelled Peruvian Guise.


The SAE government is not pleased to hear that India is actively driving the re-militarization of the Empires enemies.

8

Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 9:54am

If Argentina is pursuing a larger design Italy can suggest the following which is to all intents and purposes a lightened version of the Littorio Class. The secondary armament is changed to follow Argentine pratice and the armour is lightened. This all allows about 4000tons to be cut off the design. It is still a fast design with a very powerful armament (Italy would much prefer the use of superior 381/50 guns rather than Chilean weapons). Seakeeping is not as good as requested but the hull depth was constrained by the Littorio design.

Littorio laid down 1937

Displacement:
36,666 t light; 38,891 t standard; 42,893 t normal; 46,094 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(815.18 ft / 787.40 ft) x 104.99 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x (31.17 / 33.01 ft)
(248.47 m / 240.00 m) x 32.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x (9.50 / 10.06 m)

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm 50.0 cal guns - 1,951.09lbs / 885.00kg shells, 110 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1937 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 4.53" / 115 mm 45.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 300 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1937 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 54.0 cal guns - 1.66lbs / 0.75kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 77.0 cal guns - 0.28lbs / 0.13kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model
4 x 2 row sextuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,942 lbs / 8,592 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 459.32 ft / 140.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 88.58 ft / 27.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
239.50 ft / 73.00 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 459.32 ft / 140.00 m 30.18 ft / 9.20 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 9.06" / 230 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.47" / 12 mm 0.47" / 12 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 4.96" / 126 mm For and Aft decks

- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160,000 shp / 119,360 Kw = 31.47 kts
Range 7,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,203 tons

Complement:
1,489 - 1,937

Cost:
£20.089 million / $80.354 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,886 tons, 9.1 %
Armour: 11,713 tons, 27.3 %
- Belts: 3,007 tons, 7.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,010 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 3,038 tons, 7.1 %
- Armour Deck: 4,585 tons, 10.7 %
- Conning Tower: 73 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,435 tons, 10.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,333 tons, 38.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,227 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.7 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- Hull above water: 100 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
63,496 lbs / 28,801 Kg = 37.6 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 7.4 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.565 / 0.573
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 36.75 ft / 11.20 m, 25.26 ft / 7.70 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 25.26 ft / 7.70 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m, 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Average freeboard: 25.11 ft / 7.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 187.1 %
Waterplane Area: 60,934 Square feet or 5,661 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 213 lbs/sq ft or 1,040 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.44
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Deck
70mm forwards, 36+115 machinery, 36+135 magazines, 100mm box aft

Belt
280@15°
60 splinter proofing forwards

9

Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 10:58am

A smaller, less expensive alternative from HDW. It is not as well armed as some of the alternatives, but it's fast, has good at-sea characteristics, good armor, and it fits in a 220m slip.


Pampas II, Argentine Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
27,522 t light; 28,752 t standard; 31,031 t normal; 32,854 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
746.85 ft / 721.78 ft x 88.58 ft x 31.17 ft (normal load)
227.64 m / 220.00 m x 27.00 m x 9.50 m

Armament:
9 - 11.14" / 283 mm guns (3x3 guns), 727.53lbs / 330.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft, 8 raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,354 lbs / 3,336 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.4" / 290 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 469.16 ft / 143.00 m 26.90 ft / 8.20 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 159,430 shp / 118,935 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,101 tons

Complement:
1,168 - 1,519

Cost:
£12.655 million / $50.619 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 879 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 10,336 tons, 33.3 %
- Belts: 3,117 tons, 10.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 735 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 2,191 tons, 7.1 %
- Armour Deck: 4,041 tons, 13.0 %
- Conning Tower: 251 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 4,419 tons, 14.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,749 tons, 37.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,508 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,777 lbs / 23,486 Kg = 74.9 x 11.1 " / 283 mm shells or 7.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.545
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 37.73 ft / 11.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Mid (50 %): 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Stern: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Average freeboard: 29.37 ft / 8.95 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 216.4 %
Waterplane Area: 46,233 Square feet or 4,295 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 795 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.87
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Belt armor is composed of a 50mm decapping plate backed by a 240mm main belt. The upper belt is an extension of the decapping plate.

140 tons reserved for aircraft, radar, and growth.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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10

Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 11:33am

This is an idea a private cooperation with residence in Coldmere is offering..

[OOC: An interesting contest. I decided to use a different appreach, focusing on a small, cheap hull given Argentinas strained budgets post-war. With the exception of seakeeping and TT bulkhead all requirements are met. The 320mm caliber was chosen because OTL Italy increased caliber from their 30,5cm guns to 32cm which would also be possible for the Patagonias 12" guns - so the Argentinean capital ships had a standard caliber again - and because the 320mm gun with a relatively heavy shell is a serious threat to most if not all contenders in that size category.]

Project 117ATlight, Argentine Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
22.614 t light; 23.626 t standard; 25.263 t normal; 26.573 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
719,41 ft / 702,10 ft x 85,30 ft x 24,61 ft (normal load)
219,28 m / 214,00 m x 26,00 m x 7,50 m

Armament:
6 - 12,60" / 320 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.102,31lbs / 500,00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46,40lbs / 21,05kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (4x4 and 4x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
24 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x6 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7.399 lbs / 3.356 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 433,07 ft / 132,00 m 11,48 ft / 3,50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,97" / 50 mm 433,07 ft / 132,00 m 24,61 ft / 7,50 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11,8" / 300 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 11,0" / 280 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 1,57" / 40 mm
3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm - -
4th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 3,15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 127.346 shp / 95.000 Kw = 30,69 kts
Range 7.500nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.947 tons

Complement:
1.001 - 1.302

Cost:
£10,898 million / $43,592 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 848 tons, 3,4%
Armour: 8.133 tons, 32,2%
- Belts: 2.357 tons, 9,3%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 776 tons, 3,1%
- Armament: 1.750 tons, 6,9%
- Armour Deck: 3.190 tons, 12,6%
- Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0,2%
Machinery: 3.530 tons, 14,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.904 tons, 39,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.649 tons, 10,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37.845 lbs / 17.166 Kg = 37,9 x 12,6 " / 320 mm shells or 5,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,04
Metacentric height 4,3 ft / 1,3 m
Roll period: 17,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,71
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,600
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29,53 ft / 9,00 m
- Forecastle (30%): 24,28 ft / 7,40 m
- Mid (75%): 24,28 ft / 7,40 m (16,40 ft / 5,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Stern: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Average freeboard: 22,94 ft / 6,99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190,4%
Waterplane Area: 43.803 Square feet or 4.069 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 766 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,24
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

11

Monday, November 24th 2008, 12:53pm

After private consults with SAE Bharat stops any further talks of participating in the Argentine Tender.

OOC: Checked my construction schedule and the only lost of the whole Naval program from 1937 to 1940 are four minelayers. So I can live without the Guise plus try to mend this political faux de pas.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "perdedor99" (Nov 24th 2008, 2:15pm)


12

Tuesday, November 25th 2008, 9:23am

Italy has another design but it really needs to be drawn out first.

13

Tuesday, November 25th 2008, 7:44pm

The designs offered so far all seem reasonable and deserve further development and consultation. Full criticisms and proposed improvements will follow later. if no one design is satisfactory after modifications then a revised TTR will be drawn up.

Italy has as much time as it wants to prepare another design.

Hoo, who is the Coldmere design team?

14

Tuesday, November 25th 2008, 8:20pm

You might well ask who the coldmere team are?

I assure you, no Berg's are involved.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

  • Send private message

15

Tuesday, November 25th 2008, 9:34pm

The design bureau is known as "Hendrikson and Brothers". Little more is known as their business relations are a bit obscure. But they are known to have been consulted in earlier naval projects as subcontractors. Gunnar Hendrikson is a known expert in hydrodynamics. His company also designed some racing yachts that won some trophies, IIRC.... Got to google that, thought.

[C´mon, I just wanted to post my design, really!]

16

Tuesday, November 25th 2008, 10:14pm

Might as well give it a try

AArgentine BC, Danzig/Coldemere Battle Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
24 764 t light; 25 875 t standard; 27 525 t normal; 28 845 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
220,00 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m x 8,00 m

Armament:
6 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 881,85lbs / 400,00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (10x2 guns), 55,12lbs / 25,00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x6 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6 446 lbs / 2 924 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,2" / 360 mm 393,70 ft / 120,00 m 11,09 ft / 3,38 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 7,87" / 200 mm 469,16 ft / 143,00 m 8,20 ft / 2,50 m
Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2,76" / 70 mm 469,16 ft / 143,00 m 24,11 ft / 7,35 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11,0" / 280 mm 7,09" / 180 mm 7,09" / 180 mm
2nd: 3,15" / 80 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 106 115 shp / 79 161 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 7 500nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2 970 tons

Complement:
1 068 - 1 389

Cost:
£10,504 million / $42,017 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 771 tons, 2,8 %
Armour: 11 532 tons, 41,9 %
- Belts: 3 985 tons, 14,5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1 154 tons, 4,2 %
- Armament: 1 291 tons, 4,7 %
- Armour Deck: 5 025 tons, 18,3 %
- Conning Tower: 77 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 2 941 tons, 10,7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 321 tons, 33,9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 761 tons, 10,0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
49 233 lbs / 22 332 Kg = 57,0 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 8,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
Metacentric height 4,2 ft / 1,3 m
Roll period: 16,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,620
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30,58 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31,17 ft / 9,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Stern: 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Average freeboard: 21,98 ft / 6,70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173,9 %
Waterplane Area: 45 995 Square feet or 4 273 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 695 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,13
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


200 Tons assigned for various requested equipment

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (Nov 25th 2008, 10:44pm)


17

Wednesday, November 26th 2008, 1:21am

This is the large BC HDW has submitted. It does NOT fit into a 220m slip, though, and is a good bit more expensive than the smaller design, but the main battery and armor are hopefully reasons to choose it.

Pampas II, Argentine Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
33,890 t light; 35,634 t standard; 38,249 t normal; 40,341 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
811.52 ft / 787.40 ft x 91.86 ft (Bulges 98.43 ft) x 31.99 ft (normal load)
247.35 m / 240.00 m x 28.00 m (Bulges 30.00 m) x 9.75 m

Armament:
9 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,543.24lbs / 700.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (6x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 14,509 lbs / 6,581 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 11.52 ft / 3.51 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.97" / 50 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 29.17 ft / 8.89 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 6.69" / 170 mm 13.8" / 350 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 8.27" / 210 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 156,310 shp / 116,607 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,707 tons

Complement:
1,366 - 1,777

Cost:
£16.877 million / $67.507 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,549 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 12,260 tons, 32.1 %
- Belts: 3,435 tons, 9.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,087 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 2,986 tons, 7.8 %
- Armour Deck: 4,550 tons, 11.9 %
- Conning Tower: 202 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,332 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,548 tons, 40.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,359 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
58,126 lbs / 26,366 Kg = 44.4 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 18.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.540
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 25.43 ft / 7.75 m
- Stern: 25.43 ft / 7.75 m
- Average freeboard: 26.77 ft / 8.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188.9 %
Waterplane Area: 52,054 Square feet or 4,836 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 951 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

200 tons reserved for aircraft and growth.

18

Saturday, November 29th 2008, 3:38am

An initial design submitted by Atlantis.

Independencia, Argentinian Battlecruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
36,920 t light; 38,977 t standard; 43,215 t normal; 46,606 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
743.13 ft / 727.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
226.51 m / 221.59 m x 32.92 m x 9.75 m

Armament:
9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (12x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,979 lbs / 6,341 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 410.00 ft / 124.97 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.35" / 60 mm 410.00 ft / 124.97 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.58" / 40 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Armour deck: 5.20" / 132 mm, Conning tower: 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 139,526 shp / 104,087 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,629 tons

Complement:
1,498 - 1,948

Cost:
£17.744 million / $70.977 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,690 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 15,419 tons, 35.7 %
- Belts: 5,159 tons, 11.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,069 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 3,317 tons, 7.7 %
- Armour Deck: 5,769 tons, 13.3 %
- Conning Tower: 105 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,867 tons, 8.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,693 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,296 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
72,068 lbs / 32,690 Kg = 52.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 12.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.602
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.73 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.50 ft / 1.98 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.50 ft / 9.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Stern: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 24.60 ft / 7.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.0 %
Waterplane Area: 59,964 Square feet or 5,571 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 193 lbs/sq ft or 940 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

19

Saturday, November 29th 2008, 3:57am

A second larger battlecruiser based on the Massinissa design, modified to most Argentinian specs except the 220m limit for hull length.

Pampas II, Argentinian Battlecruiser laid down 1936

Displacement:
39,650 t light; 41,972 t standard; 46,456 t normal; 50,043 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
781.87 ft / 765.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
238.31 m / 233.17 m x 32.92 m x 9.75 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,699.76lbs / 771.00kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
24 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (12x2 guns), 46.48lbs / 21.08kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
28 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (7x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 16,446 lbs / 7,460 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 390.00 ft / 118.87 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.35" / 60 mm 390.00 ft / 118.87 m 31.00 ft / 9.45 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.58" / 40 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.25" / 133 mm, Conning tower: 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 144,315 shp / 107,659 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,071 tons

Complement:
1,581 - 2,056

Cost:
£19.350 million / $77.401 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,042 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 14,934 tons, 32.1 %
- Belts: 3,947 tons, 8.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,051 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 3,621 tons, 7.8 %
- Armour Deck: 6,205 tons, 13.4 %
- Conning Tower: 110 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,049 tons, 8.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,425 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,806 tons, 14.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
73,728 lbs / 33,443 Kg = 43.7 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 11.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.615
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.60 ft / 9.94 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Stern: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 24.69 ft / 7.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184.7 %
Waterplane Area: 63,885 Square feet or 5,935 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 213 lbs/sq ft or 1,038 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.04
- Longitudinal: 1.51
- Overall: 1.08
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

20

Saturday, November 29th 2008, 10:15am



I gave up with the drawing from lack of time. This is something smaller and a bit different for Argentina's consideration. The length of 220m meant it was quite difficult to meet the speed requirement. The 245m length of this design corresponds to a Type 3.5 slipway or drydock.

The armament consists of five 381mm/51 weapons of Chilean origin, but Ansaldo would suggest Italy's own 381/50 weapon which is more powerful and more proven. The two turrets are mounted forwards ahead of the superstructure. The triple turret is superfiring mostly for considerations of protection. The beam of the ship is quite limited, especially forwards. Moving the larger diameter turret backwards in the ship means there is greater room for the torpedo defence system. Mounted aft is a triple turret with 190/52 guns. The all-forward arrangement of the main armament saves weight and space but may not be the best from tactical considerations. This attempts to rectify the problem by having some heavy guns facing aft. The large 115/45 armament is fitted in twin turrets around the superstructure.

[Another study indicated it would be possible to fit 9x305/46 guns on this hull in a more conventional arrangement.

No light AA guns on this design but can easily be added in the detail design stage]

The armour fitted is thought to be adequate for the threats this ship is likely to face. It consists of an external 280mm belt angled at 15°. The deck armour consists of a two-layered system with a 36mm plate on the weather deck and 125mm on the main deck over the magazines, 105mm over machinery. The torpedo defence system is similar to the Pugliese system used by Italian capital ships, but with lesser depth from the smaller hull. It should be able to resist a 300-400kg charge.

The machinery is developed from that used on the Littorio Class but tweaked to produce an additional 20,000hp for a total of 180,000shp. This should propel the hull to a speed of around 33.5-34knts. It is expected that 35knts can be exceeded with a moderate degree of overload at light condition. The range requirement is more than met with enough fuel for 10,000miles at 15knts provided. The hull is optimised for higher speeds and so a higher cruising speed would be beneficial.

A catapult and hangar are fitted aft on the spacious quarterdeck. The designers are confident that the seakeeping of the hull will be good, even at high speed.

Ansaldo Study 2 laid down 1937

Displacement:
30,984 t light; 32,653 t standard; 35,486 t normal; 37,752 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(820.22 ft / 803.81 ft) x 88.58 ft (Bulges 95.14 ft) x (29.53 / 31.06 ft)
(250.00 m / 245.00 m) x 27.00 m (Bulges 29.00 m) x (9.00 / 9.47 m)

Armament:
5 - 15.00" / 381 mm 51.0 cal guns - 1,699.76lbs / 771.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1937 Model
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
3 - 7.48" / 190 mm 52.0 cal guns - 199.96lbs / 90.70kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1937 Model
1 x 3-gun mount on centreline, aft deck centre
1 raised mount
20 - 4.53" / 115 mm 45.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 300 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1937 Model
12 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,201 lbs / 4,627 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.8" / 350 mm 9.06" / 230 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 4.72" / 120 mm For and Aft decks

- Conning towers: Forward 2.76" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 180,000 shp / 134,280 Kw = 33.60 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,100 tons

Complement:
1,292 - 1,680

Cost:
£15.782 million / $63.128 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,497 tons, 7.0 %
Armour: 9,551 tons, 26.9 %
- Belts: 3,099 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 783 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 2,096 tons, 5.9 %
- Armour Deck: 3,510 tons, 9.9 %
- Conning Tower: 64 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,989 tons, 14.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,647 tons, 38.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,501 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.8 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
53,293 lbs / 24,173 Kg = 31.6 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 7.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.556
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Average freeboard: 28.22 ft / 8.60 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 206.4 %
Waterplane Area: 51,734 Square feet or 4,806 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 903 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily