WesWorld

Multi-purpose Escort.

These escorts are to begin construction in 1925. They qualify as under 2,000tons and 24kts, no torpedoes or guns over 6", no more than 8 guns over 3".
They have a mix of Anti-surface 5" guns and Anti-air 4". They are also fitted with 'Y guns' a US antisub weapon that fires two depthcharges simultaneously (minimise recoil) to either side. They are not popular in the US navy as they take up valuable centreline space but that is not so much of a problem with ships not mounting torpedo tubes. The standard method of attack is to head down the torpedo track from the sub and either ram or drop DC. To counter small manoeverable subs like those permitted by the CT (and learnt from exercises with out own R Class subs) we will probably need to throw DC out on either side of the ship to compensate for the sub breaking away faster than WW1 subs did.
With the Type 1 variant, the midships are kept clear for four 38ft launches and cargo. A luffing boom is carried on each side to lift loaded launches in and out of the water.

The Type 2 is optimised for Anti-surface action and has 3 twin 5" mounts as in the new flotilla leaders. These ships are to replace destroyers as battleship escorts and outgun most destroyers but lack the torpedo battery. These ships introduce the new US manufactured 5"/25 AA gun in place of the 4" AA in the other Types.

The Type 3 is a minelayer with the capacity of 250 mines and main gun battery reduced to 3 5" guns.

Type 4 replaces an earlier design for a training ship. This type carries an aircraft and has a more varied gun outfit and extra accomodation facilities.

Type 5 is a specialised seaplane tender that can maintain a squadron of seaplanes with fuel and minor repairs.

Type 6 is a motor torpedoboat tender carrying fuel and torpedoes aswell as providing extra accomodation for crews.

All ships are to be expected to operate in an escort role for other units and have the ability to provide defence for the mobile base concept.

Type1-Escort, Greece Transport laid down 1925

Displacement:
1,878 t light; 1,961 t standard; 2,574 t normal; 3,053 t full load
Loading submergence 234 tons/feet

Dimensions:
350.00 ft x 38.30 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
106.68 m x 11.67 m x 4.27 m

Armament:
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (1 Main turrets x 2 guns)
3 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (3 2nd turrets x 1 guns)
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm AA guns
8 - 0.50" / 13 mm guns
Weight of broadside 377 lbs / 171 kg

Armour:
Belt 0.75" / 19 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
Main turrets 1.00" / 25 mm, 2nd turrets 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14,219 shp / 10,607 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
180 - 234

Cost:
£0.556 million / $2.225 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 47 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 167 tons, 6.5 %
Belts: 52 tons, 2.0 %, Armament: 39 tons, 1.5 %, Armour Deck: 76 tons, 2.9 %
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 462 tons, 17.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,042 tons, 40.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 695 tons, 27.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 6.2 %

Metacentric height 1.4

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.09
Shellfire needed to sink: 4,407 lbs / 1,999 Kg = 70.5 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 100 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.77
Relative quality as seaboat: 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.480
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.81
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim: 51
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 79.8 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 154.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 158 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.90
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs / square foot or 322 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.70
(for 17.80 ft / 5.43 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 6.26 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

---
Type2-Gunboat, Greece Escort laid down 1925

Displacement:
1,874 t light; 1,968 t standard; 2,590 t normal; 3,078 t full load
Loading submergence 234 tons/feet

Dimensions:
350.00 ft x 38.30 ft x 14.09 ft (normal load)
106.68 m x 11.67 m x 4.29 m

Armament:
6 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (3 Main turrets x 2 guns, 1 superfiring turret)
Caution: Main guns limited to end-on fire
1 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (1 2nd turrets x 1 guns)
1 - 5.00" / 127 mm AA guns
8 - 0.50" / 13 mm guns
Weight of broadside 501 lbs / 227 kg

Armour:
Belt 0.75" / 19 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
Main turrets 1.00" / 25 mm, 2nd turrets 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14,275 shp / 10,649 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
181 - 236

Cost:
£0.599 million / $2.396 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 63 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 183 tons, 7.1 %
Belts: 52 tons, 2.0 %, Armament: 55 tons, 2.1 %, Armour Deck: 76 tons, 2.9 %
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 463 tons, 17.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,075 tons, 41.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 716 tons, 27.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 3.5 %

Metacentric height 1.4

Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.08
Shellfire needed to sink: 4,220 lbs / 1,914 Kg = 67.5 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.1
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 100 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 1.02
Relative quality as seaboat: 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.480
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.79
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim: 51
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 81.1 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 152.8 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 152 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.87
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs / square foot or 332 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.68
(for 17.71 ft / 5.40 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 6.15 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.98

---

Type3-Minelayer, Greece Minelayer laid down 1925

Displacement:
1,878 t light; 1,951 t standard; 2,574 t normal; 3,062 t full load
Loading submergence 234 tons/feet

Dimensions:
350.00 ft x 38.30 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
106.68 m x 11.67 m x 4.27 m

Armament:
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (1 Main turrets x 2 guns)
1 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (1 2nd turrets x 1 guns)
2 - 4.00" / 102 mm AA guns
12 - 0.50" / 13 mm guns
Weight of broadside 252 lbs / 114 kg

Armour:
Belt 0.75" / 19 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
Main turrets 1.00" / 25 mm, 2nd turrets 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14,219 shp / 10,607 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
180 - 234

Cost:
£0.513 million / $2.053 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 32 tons, 1.2 %
Armour: 151 tons, 5.9 %
Belts: 52 tons, 2.0 %, Armament: 22 tons, 0.9 %, Armour Deck: 76 tons, 2.9 %
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 462 tons, 17.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 994 tons, 38.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 696 tons, 27.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 240 tons, 9.3 %

Metacentric height 1.4

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.08
Shellfire needed to sink: 4,455 lbs / 2,021 Kg = 71.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 100 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.52
Relative quality as seaboat: 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.480
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.81
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim: 51
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 78.5 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 154.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 164 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.89
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs / square foot or 307 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.62
(for 17.80 ft / 5.43 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 6.26 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

---
Type4-Trainingship, Greece Training Ship laid down 1925

Displacement:
1,878 t light; 1,959 t standard; 2,579 t normal; 3,065 t full load
Loading submergence 234 tons/feet

Dimensions:
350.00 ft x 38.30 ft x 14.03 ft (normal load)
106.68 m x 11.67 m x 4.28 m

Armament:
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (1 Main turrets x 2 guns)
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2 2nd turrets x 1 guns)
3 - 4.00" / 102 mm AA guns
12 - 0.50" / 13 mm guns
Weight of broadside 347 lbs / 157 kg

Armour:
Belt 0.75" / 19 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
Main turrets 1.00" / 25 mm, 2nd turrets 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14,238 shp / 10,621 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
180 - 235

Cost:
£0.546 million / $2.185 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 43 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 159 tons, 6.2 %
Belts: 52 tons, 2.0 %, Armament: 31 tons, 1.2 %, Armour Deck: 76 tons, 2.9 %
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 462 tons, 17.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,029 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 701 tons, 27.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 185 tons, 7.2 %

Metacentric height 1.4

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.09
Shellfire needed to sink: 4,413 lbs / 2,002 Kg = 70.6 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 100 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.71
Relative quality as seaboat: 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.480
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.80
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim: 51
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 79.6 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 154.2 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 160 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.90
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs / square foot or 318 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.68
(for 17.77 ft / 5.42 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 6.22 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

---
Type5-6-Tender, Greece Tender laid down 1925


Displacement:
1,878 t light; 1,953 t standard; 2,568 t normal; 3,050 t full load
Loading submergence 234 tons/feet

Dimensions:
350.00 ft x 38.30 ft x 13.97 ft (normal load)
106.68 m x 11.67 m x 4.26 m

Armament:
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (1 Main turrets x 2 guns)
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2 2nd turrets x 1 guns)
1 - 4.00" / 102 mm AA guns
12 - 0.50" / 13 mm guns
Weight of broadside 283 lbs / 128 kg

Armour:
Belt 0.75" / 19 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
Main turrets 1.00" / 25 mm, 2nd turrets 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14,200 shp / 10,593 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
180 - 234

Cost:
£0.524 million / $2.094 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 159 tons, 6.2 %
Belts: 52 tons, 2.0 %, Armament: 31 tons, 1.2 %, Armour Deck: 76 tons, 3.0 %
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 461 tons, 18.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,013 tons, 39.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 690 tons, 26.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 210 tons, 8.2 %

Metacentric height 1.4

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.09
Shellfire needed to sink: 4,461 lbs / 2,024 Kg = 71.4 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 100 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.58
Relative quality as seaboat: 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.480
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.81
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim: 51
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 78.5 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 153.8 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 163 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.90
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs / square foot or 313 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.64
(for 17.73 ft / 5.40 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 6.19 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

---
Cheers,

Very well done. I especially like the minelayer. Using a standard hull is a good idea even though I question the value of some of the other variants.

Btw, on your alt_naval page those ships can´t be found, right? And there´s also no link in the "others" section... Why?

They're exclusive to Wesworld ; )

I haven't updated anything since March so that is why its not there.

Cheers,

I really, really like 'em.

But, the Type 2 needs a bit of work:

Quoted

Caution: Main guns limited to end-on fire
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 1.02

A trim tweak should fix this problem.

All of them would get better stability and more survivability if the trim was reduced enough to get the 100 steadiness down to 70, which still gives you the steady gun platform note. Under our rules, there is no advantage in having a steadiness rating higher than 70.

Unless over course there is some combat rules that are introduced were that is a factor...haven't seen one yet.

If we get to the point where our ships are exchanging fire, we should get a system to deal with the information that would handle the ship's specifications and allow for at least tactical decisions while in battle. I've participated in a few games ranging from 1901 to 1945 using different systems. I think some of them will work, but I don't have a copy of any of those rule sets. I'd need to find out how to convert the information from SS to a game equally and fairly, so that on the feild of battle, it will come down to the ship and its captain/admiral's ability to use his ship.

We do need some combat rules; we'll be trading salvos sooner or later - quite possibly "sooner"...

Is there a preferance of movement styles? Open field or hexmat?

Quoted

A trim tweak should fix this problem.

oops. I was messing around with the type 2. even with more guns she was coming out lighter than the others. Maybe the turrets should be twin shields instead.

Cheers,

Quoted

I question the value of some of the other variants

Hoo, why build little escorts when you can build/afford big ones ; )

They introduce the idea of an ahead (near ahead) throwing AS weapon.

The transport version is valuable for an island nation.

The gunboat could blunt a destroyer torpedo charge with a greater weight of gunfire and being 25% bigger than a treaty DD.

A minelayer frees up having to use CT limited ships in this role.

The training ship means I don't use cruiser tonnage ala Jean de Arc style.

MTB would play a key part in a war around the Greek islands so a dedicated support ship would be of advantage. MTB are too heavy to hoist aboard so the idea of a transport is not an option.

The seaplane tender is same principle to the US Barnegat(?) class and the flush-deck DD's converted to mobile seaplane bases but I can hoist a plane on board to work on it.

Them all being the same size puts ease on my industry and my speadsheet ; )

Cheers,

Well, I´m not sure if 24kn will do for an escort that is meant to protect a battleline or convoy. Sure, it offers a decent punch and is larger than a standard DD of category B but compared to a DD, category A, I´m not sure if it still holds the cards.

Feel free to compare your design to the DL below (first RSAN DL to be laid down). It´s still SSv1.1 and not yet transformed into SSv2.01 which will most likely allow a further increase in combat value or speed (most likely the latter).

It has less range, is not as good a seaboat but is much faster but offers an additional barrel albeit of a somewhat smaller caliber. However, I doubt those 19mm of armor on your designs hull will be suffice to keep 115mm shells fired from high-mv guns out of her hull. And don´t forget those 8 TTs...

DL28-2000, South African Flotilla Leader laid down 1928

Displacement:
2.000 t light; 2.079 t standard; 2.296 t normal; 2.460 t full load
Loading submergence 240 tons/feet

Dimensions:
393,70 ft x 39,37 ft x 12,96 ft (normal load)
120,00 m x 12,00 m x 3,95 m

Armament:
8 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns
10 - 1,57" / 40 mm AA guns
12 - 0,79" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 394 lbs / 179 kg
8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Main gun shields 0,98" / 25 mm, AA gun shields 0,59" / 15 mm, Light gun shields 0,39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 53.620 shp / 40.000 Kw = 34,60 kts
Range 3.950nm at 15,00 kts

Complement:
165 - 215

Cost:
£1,108 million / $4,431 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 49 tons, 2,1%
Armour: 15 tons, 0,7%
Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%, Armament: 15 tons, 0,7%, Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 1.277 tons, 55,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 639 tons, 27,8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 295 tons, 12,9%
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0,9%

Metacentric height 2,0

Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,32
Shellfire needed to sink: 497 lbs / 225 Kg = 10,7 x 4,5 " / 115 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0,3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 70 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,22
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,400
Sharpness coefficient: 0,30
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 9,12
'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim: 70
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 196,7%
Relative accommodation and working space: 99,6%
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 61%
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0,50
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 40 lbs / square foot or 195 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,15
(for 15,94 ft / 4,86 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 4,66 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0,55

Quoted

Feel free to compare your design to the DL below (first RSAN DL to be laid down). It´s still SSv1.1 and not yet transformed into SSv2.01 which will most likely allow a further increase in combat value or speed (most likely the latter).

I've noticed that SSv2.01 gives a completely different readout for Destroyers than SSv1.1 you have to use a transom stern to get anywhere close to 0.5 strength.

Well, I disagree. It is still possible to build realistic DDs without transome sterns but I agree that such a stern surely helps to get similar high speeds as on historical design. If one also accepts that DDs don´t have to be good seaboats (seakeeping of 0,8 - 1,0), at least at high speeds, you can relatively easily get 36-38kn....

Look at the differences.

SSv1.1

Navigatori, Italian Esploratori laid down 1925

Displacement:
1,741 t light; 1,815 t standard; 1,978 t normal; 2,100 t full load
Loading submergence 166 tons/feet

Dimensions:
328.08 ft x 32.81 ft x 16.08 ft (normal load)
100.00 m x 10.00 m x 4.90 m

Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns
2 - 1.46" / 37 mm AA guns
Weight of broadside 405 lbs / 184 kg
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Main gun shields 0.79" / 20 mm
Conning tower 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54,000 shp / 40,284 Kw = 34.50 kts
Range 3,000nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
148 - 192

Cost:
£0.868 million / $3.470 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 51 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 17 tons, 0.9 %
Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Armament: 8 tons, 0.4 %, Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.5 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,154 tons, 58.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 499 tons, 25.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 236 tons, 12.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 1.0 %

Metacentric height 1.3

Remarks:
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation & workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.20
Shellfire needed to sink: 309 lbs / 140 Kg = 4.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 52 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.35
Relative quality as seaboat: 0.79

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.400
Sharpness coefficient: 0.30
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.99
'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim: 65
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 208.7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 65.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 50 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.50
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs / square foot or 192 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.62
(for 14.17 ft / 4.32 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 3.22 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 0.57




SSv2

Navigatori, Italian Esploratori laid down 1925

Displacement:
1,751 t light; 1,826 t standard; 1,978 t normal; 2,099 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
331.79 ft / 328.08 ft x 32.81 ft x 16.08 ft (normal load)
101.13 m / 100.00 m x 10.00 m x 4.90 m

Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (3x2 guns), 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1925 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft
6 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1925 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 427 lbs / 194 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 44,400 shp / 33,122 Kw = 34.50 kts
Range 3,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 272 tons)

Complement:
147 - 192

Cost:
£0.822 million / $3.286 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 51 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 26 tons, 1.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 17 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 1,051 tons, 53.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 603 tons, 30.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 227 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
393 lbs / 178 Kg = 5.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.82

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.95 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Mid (40 %): 20.34 ft / 6.20 m (10.83 ft / 3.30 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Stern: 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Average freeboard: 14.69 ft / 4.48 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 192.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.5 %
Waterplane Area: 6,876 Square feet or 639 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 59 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 199 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.67
- Overall: 0.60
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Well if an enemy has to send it's best and biggest DD (limited by treaty) to attack my puny battleline then so be it. ; )

Cheers,

Well, if I had to sail against your battleline I´d take my own. *cough cough*

I just question the value of such a gunboat if used as an escort.

Quoted

Well, if I had to sail against your battleline I´d take my own.

Be my guest Admiral Rozhedestvensky

You would need the assitance of either GB or Iberia, in which case Greece would have more immediate problems than the SAE battleline.

Quoted

I just question the value of such a gunboat if used as an escort.

I agree but I'm limited in DD strength in the same proportion you are.

Cheers,

That South African Destroyer Leader seems heavy enough to be labelled a light cruiser rather than a destroyer.

Actually he looks heavier than some of the early German light cruisers. At least in terms of firepower.

Greece is also building flotilla leaders at about 3000t standard to stiffen my destroyers. I figure I'd like 4 small ships that I can risk rather than 1 large one that I can't.

Cheers,

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
That South African Destroyer Leader seems heavy enough to be labelled a light cruiser rather than a destroyer.

Actually he looks heavier than some of the early German light cruisers. At least in terms of firepower.

Hardly... Against a cruiser - even one of WW1-vintage - my DDs wouldn´t have a chance as they lack any kind of hull armor and are easy to cripple. In return CLs proofed to be very difficult to sink by gun fire (think of ARETHUSA or galant WIESBADEN) alone.

Things get even worse against a modern WesWorld-CL.

Those DDs are my interpretation of what would be a TRIBAL-class later. The TRIBALs as build in the mid-30s had 8x12cm, just one TT mount but made 36+kn - on 1850ts. I always liked them and they had impressive war records - even though only a few survived.

Regards,

HoOmAn