You are not logged in.

German News & Events - Q2, 1939

Dear visitor, welcome to WesWorld. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

  • Send private message

1

Friday, June 18th 2010, 1:17pm

German News & Events - Q2, 1939

June 18, 1939 - Berlin

The Heer has agreed on a production contract for a new heavy panzer, the Panzer VI with Henschel. The new tank will be closely based on the VK4501 prototype seen last year at Grafenwohr, with changes as requested. The first examples, in mild steel, should be available for troop trials and training by the end of the year. No word from the Heer has yet surfaced on why the new Panzer was given the number VI when the V is not yet in use.

perdedor99

Sage

Posts: 4,026

  • Send private message

2

Friday, June 18th 2010, 1:53pm

So the Tiger is making an appearance.

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

  • Send private message

3

Friday, June 18th 2010, 4:03pm

More correctly, A Tiger will be making it's appearance. It won't look all that much like the historical Pz VIA, because WW German tanks have adopted sloped armor after the Christies that Germany bought first. The armament, though, is pretty similar, the only real difference is that there are 2 coaxial 7.92mm MGs rather than 1.

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

  • Send private message

4

Friday, June 18th 2010, 6:29pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
More correctly, A Tiger will be making it's appearance. It won't look all that much like the historical Pz VIA, because WW German tanks have adopted sloped armor after the Christies that Germany bought first. The armament, though, is pretty similar, the only real difference is that there are 2 coaxial 7.92mm MGs rather than 1.


So it'll be more along the lines of the King Tiger, but with the short 88mm gun.

Where are the 2 coaxial mgs? Or is it just a twin mounting?

Italy might have to have a bit of a poke around for a gun to defeat 100mm of sloped armour (or that assumed amount).

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Jun 18th 2010, 6:53pm)

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

  • Send private message

5

Friday, June 18th 2010, 9:24pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
More correctly, A Tiger will be making it's appearance. It won't look all that much like the historical Pz VIA, because WW German tanks have adopted sloped armor after the Christies that Germany bought first. The armament, though, is pretty similar, the only real difference is that there are 2 coaxial 7.92mm MGs rather than 1.


So it'll be more along the lines of the King Tiger, but with the short 88mm gun.

Where are the 2 coaxial mgs? Or is it just a twin mounting?

Italy might have to have a bit of a poke around for a gun to defeat 100mm of sloped armour (or that assumed amount).


Yeah, it'll look kind of like a King Tiger with the short 88, or a wider Panther with the 88/56. The 2 coaxials are a twin coaxial mounting like on the early Pz IIIs, the historical ones up through the Pz IIIF (so far, all the WW German mediums and now heavies have this, if wartime ever actually started it would be a very quick cost-saving measure to drop the second MG).

I'm not surprised that Italy will have to look at this, Germany wasn't planning on ordering the Tiger in mid-1939 either, but when Bulgaria has modern heavy tanks.........

perdedor99

Sage

Posts: 4,026

  • Send private message

6

Friday, June 18th 2010, 9:29pm

hey Hrolf, Should I post the stats for the Argun C? Hrolf was nice enough to sim the Argun C in tanksim.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "perdedor99" (Jun 18th 2010, 9:30pm)

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

  • Send private message

7

Friday, June 18th 2010, 10:38pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
I'm not surprised that Italy will have to look at this, Germany wasn't planning on ordering the Tiger in mid-1939 either, but when Bulgaria has modern heavy tanks.........


Italy's most modern tanks have the 75/46 or 105/25, fairly respectable for historical tanks. Against these sorts of threats - essentially useless. Even APCR or APDS doesn't give much of a margin. Ergo, bigger gun in the 90mm range, which with commensurate armour puts a tank design into the 40-50t range rather than 25-30t.

Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

  • Send private message

8

Friday, June 18th 2010, 11:17pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
I'm not surprised that Italy will have to look at this, Germany wasn't planning on ordering the Tiger in mid-1939 either, but when Bulgaria has modern heavy tanks.........

Interesting! Bulgaria just learned they can dictate Germany's buying habits with the simple acquisition of a single squadron's worth of Atlantean tanks.

Don't worry, Germany! I'll keep them south of the Danube...

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

  • Send private message

9

Friday, June 18th 2010, 11:40pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Interesting! Bulgaria just learned they can dictate Germany's buying habits with the simple acquisition of a single squadron's worth of Atlantean tanks.


Well, France has them as well, which is probably more worrying for Germany.

Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

  • Send private message

10

Friday, June 18th 2010, 11:44pm

I don't believe France has bought any yet.

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

  • Send private message

11

Friday, June 18th 2010, 11:59pm

Germany figures that Russia and France must be buying them in pretty large quantity for Bulgaria to have a company's worth. The costs would be too high for Bulgaria if they weren't in mass production.

Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

  • Send private message

12

Saturday, June 19th 2010, 12:25am

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Germany figures that Russia and France must be buying them in pretty large quantity for Bulgaria to have a company's worth. The costs would be too high for Bulgaria if they weren't in mass production.

Bulgaria estimates that their squadron's worth of AT-37s cost them the equivalent of two battalions worth of AT-36s, at least with the 1937 cost of the tanks. Hence why they had to wait until 1939 to buy their AT-36s. :rolleyes:

thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

  • Send private message

13

Saturday, June 19th 2010, 12:31am

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Germany figures that Russia and France must be buying them in pretty large quantity for Bulgaria to have a company's worth. The costs would be too high for Bulgaria if they weren't in mass production.

Both Russia and Atlantis are producing them, with Russia having the larger production numbers.

TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

  • Send private message

14

Saturday, June 19th 2010, 12:32am

*Romania looks at Bulgarian tank numbers. Looks at its own, and says, meh we can take them*

Romania does find it funny that Germany is apparently so terrified of 20 tanks when they don't even have a land connection with Bulgaria. *There, there, Germany no worries. Romania will protect you from the big bad 20 Bulgarian tanks.*

:D

And IIRC, Bulgaria bought them from Atlantis. It is unknown to me if either Russia or France actually have them in their fleets.

thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

  • Send private message

15

Saturday, June 19th 2010, 12:41am

Here are production numbers for 1938.

1938 tank production numbers
124 AT-37 (TT-37)
80 AT-36
296 AT-35 Mk 1
142 AT-34 Mk 1
108 AT-32 MK 3's
162 AT-31 Mk 2's
78 AT-33's, additional foreign orders pending

These may be slightly optimistic for the year, for the AT-37, but there would certainly be the ability to have 20 tanks available for Bulgaria by 1939. The only reason the production numbers for the AT-37 are higher than the AT-36 is because Atlantis has put priority on getting heavy Infantry tanks out to its forces.

Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

  • Send private message

16

Saturday, June 19th 2010, 12:43am

Didn't I buy my AT37s in 1937? I thought I did.

In any case, they're kinda a misstep for Bulgaria, as they can't be purchased in the numbers necessary to make them effective. I'd actually considered selling them back to Atlantis in exchange for more AT-36s, which at least don't leave a string of smashed bridges behind them like teary teenage girls in the wake of Leonardo Bloom, or whatever his name was.

thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

  • Send private message

17

Saturday, June 19th 2010, 12:49am

Heh, I thought you picked them up in 1939, either way, 20 tanks is still possible. The 1938 production numbers show that.

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

  • Send private message

18

Saturday, June 19th 2010, 2:52pm

The design of the TT-37 itself symbolises the much greater armour and firepower of modern tanks, and that is much more of a design driver than who actually has them. Who knows what France have in 1939, last we heard they were building more Char 2C landcruisers, you just wonder whether they've built any of AMX, FCM or ARL's heavy tanks.