WesWorld

I have them...
... at home...
... and I am at work. :-(
Still I think that stuff has been posted once or twice before here on the board. I'll take a look and see if I can find anything within 5 minutes (when the break ends).

Carriers. Spring Style is designed for ships armed
primarily with guns, but carriers become important from the
end of World War I on. Here is a method for simming carriers:

Design the ship as you normally would. Put in as much
"miscellaneous weight" as you can - that will usually
determine how big an airgroup your CV can carry. Now,
get out your pocket calculator. You'll make two pretty simple
calculations, each of which gives a possible airgroup limit.

94 1) Take the square root of miscellaneous weight; e.g., if
miscellaneous weight is 10,000 tons, the weight-based limit
for your carrier is 100 aircraft. (In addition, allow at
least 25 tons per aircraft, i.e., if miscellaneous weight
is just 100 tons, your ship can carry 4 planes, not 10.)

2) Multiply length x beam (both waterline) and divide by 750;
e.g., if your CV is 900 ft x 100 ft, the space limit is 120
aircraft.

For the metric gang, divide by 70 instead; if your CV is
280 metres x 30 metres, the size limit is also 120 aircraft.

Use waterline dimensions (if available), NOT flight deck
dimensions; they can vary a lot more, and we want a
consistant rule.

Your carrier's airgroup is whichever number is LOWER.
So in the example above, your CV has an airgroup of 100
aircraft. (That is for WW II or earlier planes. For postwar
CVs with jets, I'd estimate about 2/3 of the airgroup
calculated by this method.) Usually, the weight rule gives
a lower number of planes and thus sets the limit; the size
limit will usually apply to CVEs converted from merchant
ships with a great deal of miscellaneous weight.

Use a word processor, etc., to adjust your ship
report. I list the air group above guns, since it is
obviously a carrier's main armament!

Conversions: If you convert a battlecruiser, etc., to a CV,
follow the same basic procedure. Start with the original
ship, modify main guns, armor, etc., put in miscellaneous
weight (i.e., the flight deck), and there is your carrier.

Note: This rule works pretty well for American and Japanese
carriers. British-type carriers with armored flight decks
may require a lower airgroup limit, perhaps 2/3 the number
generated by this rule.

I liked your explaination. How much misc. tonnage should be alloted per aircraft.?
Do the "Fuel, ammuntion & stores" values apply only the ship and the airgroup requirements in this area are covered in the miscellaneous weight category.

If you have <25 aircraft then it is 25tons per plane as a minimum. If you have >25 aircraft then it is the number of aircraft squared. E.g. with 100 aircraft=100*100=10,000tons of misc. weight. Personally, I'm allowing some extra misc. weight to be carried as well to serve as extra stores/fuel/spare planes etc.

Quoted

How much misc. tonnage should be alloted per aircraft.?

I guess that would depend on the weight of the plane(s) you use. If you were to use a Sopwith Camel, it would be about 0.75 ton. If you were to use a Grumman Wildcat, it would be about 3.75 tons. If you were to use a Grumman Tomcat, it would be about 33.75 tons.
All additional miscellaneous weight is needed for maintenance, ammo, fuel, crew, crew quarters structure, deck, etc.

Quoted

Personally, I'm allowing some extra misc. weight to be carried as well to serve as extra stores/fuel/spare planes etc.

Roughly how much do you use? Something like 5%-10% or 5-10 (spare) aircraft?
BTW, how would you roughly break up the misc weight for the aircrafts? Since 25 is the minimum, I would assume that (depending on the plane) roughly 1-5 tons would be "plane", 10-15 tons would be "fuel, ammunition, maintenance crew+ equipment", and 5 tons "structure + deck". I assume that the bigger the misceallaneous weight needed for a plane in the SS sim, the bigger the "structure and deck" bit would become rather than the "plane" and the "fuel, ammunition, maintenance crew+ equipment" bits.

Quoted

Roughly how much do you use? Something like 5%-10% or 5-10 (spare) aircraft?

Look at Aquila/Europa. They have 3900tons of misc. weight but carry an airgroup of 60 planes. 60*60=3600tons so I have 300tons left to play with. I took 20% of the airgroup, in this case 12 aircraft and alloted 25tons per plane giving a total of 300tons. This way the spare aircraft still contribute to the amount of fuel/stores/structure, but not as greatly as having a larger airgroup. The spare planes would be dissembled, thus taking up less space and needing less misc. weight than a normal operating plane.

Hopefully that made sense.

Quoted

It was estimated that a month’s intensive flying in semi-wartime conditions would lead to a loss rate of 20% crashed or damaged beyond repair, and 10% needing major repair. Even the major maintenance work could not be carried out within the hangars of an operational carrier without interfering with flying operations. Carrier operations required a large supply of replacement aircraft, and either a chain of support depots or bases near to the fighting, or an aircraft maintenance ship (or both). This ship became HMS Unicorn.

From WTRE by "Harry Flashman"

So if you understand that all correctly, you'll stick to that 20% of the airwing. So if you were to have 100 planes, your carrier would have 20 spares and a total miscellaneous weight of 500 + 10,000 = 10,500 tons.

Quoted

So if you understand that all correctly, you'll stick to that 20% of the airwing. So if you were to have 100 planes, your carrier would have 20 spares and a total miscellaneous weight of 500 + 10,000 = 10,500 tons.

Correct. The spare planes don't need as much misc. weight because they are replacements for planes that have been lost. However the spare planes do contribute something towards the total misc. weight.

I can't remember how many spare aircraft I allowed for with FM, but I think it was 400t = 16 aircraft from an airgroup of 72.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser
What about catapults? Are they considered part of the airgroup weight or do they get paid for separately?

Well ahead of time yet, you would only succeed in returning our aircraft to spares if you try to catapult launch them from the decks. They just don't have the strenght of structure!

Who needs a catapult when planes have a stall speed of c. 40-50knts?

Then if you steam into a 20knt headwind at 30knts your aircraft stored on deck start flying by themselves and either splat into the sea or another plane. Deckparks? Only if you have lots of chains.

Carrier take off... Manzo style. :-)

Heh heh I like the "lots of chains" idea, gives your carrier the "gothic" look.

Gothic? I assume that such a carrier will have a bridge structure like this.
:-)

Cripes now I have the inclination to acctually attempt to draw such a ship! I'd have to brush up on my Gothic architecture.......

Oh dear! Looks like I have given someone a really bad idea. :-0

Acctually no, you didn't. Turns out looking it up I got an idea for my northern Atlantian architecture which should have some heavy gothic influence from the visigoths.

I may acctually still work on my "gothic" carrier though........

I see a wonder of the ship-building arts coming........