WesWorld

I´ve my doubts about the tonnage I gave to the Australian and Canadian players.

On one hand I think I didn´t gave them enough tonnage to develope a functional navy of their own, especially with the powers potentially hostile operating in the area... on the other hand, If the UK is one of the major powers I don´t think they´d gave up their tonnage to a position that would put them in equal terms with powers such as Atlantis, the SAE or the Russians, I just don´t see it as realistic.

I know the UK had lost a lot of colonies, resources and potential manpower in Wesworld as opposed to our timeline, without Canada an Australia that situation is even more worrying, that´s the main reason I got myself into a industrial buildup even I didn´t really needed it. But that buildup also means that the british economy depends even more than in our timeline in commerce and seapower.

Even if they´d agree to a decrease in their tonnage limits I think the admiralty would still want an edge, if little, over their potential foes. If the treaty is revised, the easier would be to allow Australia and Canada to join with limits of their own, so, would you agree to this new tonnage limits:

Capital Ships
UK: 500000t, 16 capital ships
Australia-Canada: 80000t, 3 capital ships

Aircraft Carriers
UK: 120000t
Australia-Canada: 30000t

Cruisers
UK: 500000t (150000t for the heavy ones)
Australia-Canada: 100000t (30000t)

Destroyers
UK: 200000t (38000t)
Australia-Canada: 40000t (8000t)

Submarines
UK: 56400t
Australia-Canada: 26400t

I´m not trying to gain any advantage with this, just trying to give the new players a fleet big enoug to work with without crippling the RN too much, especially if we still consider the RN as one of the main powers in the Wesworld. If we don´t I guess the RN could fall to the 14 capital ship limit. What do you think?.

WOW fine with me. More than I expected.

Fine with me.

I assume you are lumping Australia and Canada together in those numbers. As we don't (to my knowledge) have a player for Canada, that might all be dropped on Australia (and have Canada remain as part of the UK until such time as it officially breaks off).

Treaty talks in 1928 could allow for the UK to give concessions to the smaller powers in terms of what they can do in modifying vessels and some other smaller limits (155mm guns on "light" cruisers for example) in exchange for more hulls and tonnage to the UK for Canada and Australia's split from the Royal Navy.

Or allow one of two other possibilities:
One, the inclusion of Australia and Canada as new minor powers with Greek-Indian tonnage (or slightly less).
Two, Austrailia and Canada are not part of the Treaty and can build as they wish. The remaining vessels from the Royal Navy still count towards the UKs tonnage, but the Dominions can do as they please with them....including scrapping them to remove them from the UK's list.

Officially: The Philippines declines to comment until the official Treaty discussions.

Unofficially: Gravina, check your PMs in a few minutes. :-)

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I assume you are lumping Australia and Canada together in those numbers

If I did that the total tonnage in some classes would be even less thant the one I had for the UK alone. Those numbers were for each players (sorry if I didn´t make it clear). I known that with the limits I propose in the end the joint RN-RAN-RCN navies would be a bit stronger than the RN originally was, but I´m willing to reach a compromise about this (for example, the UK could not be allowed to build capital units for the RAN-RCN, or something similar).

As for Australia and Canada not being part of the Treaty, I´m not sure if the other powers would allow it. I think the better would be to include them as new powers even if that would mean increasing a bit the tonnage limits. As I said I´m open to any suggestions.

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Those numbers were for each players

In that case you will have something very interesting to talk about at the 1928 treaty talks.

Have we ever considers taking to original Australia's tonnage and numbers allotment and dividing those up between the Canada and Australia, leaving the UK alone, save for the ships the Crown would part with to keep the Dominions safe until they can forge their own destinies.

Has back tracking Royal Navy ships to Canada or Australia been cosidered? Ships that the UK could have been sold to the other two pre-treaty? Or would that make more of a mess of things? (ships like the old battlecruisers and 12 and 13.5 inch guns battleships, and some of the older cruisers).

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Have we ever considers taking to original Australia's tonnage and numbers allotment and dividing those up between the Canada and Australia, leaving the UK alone, save for the ships the Crown would part with to keep the Dominions safe until they can forge their own destinies.

Now, that is a really interesting idea...

(Possible number to be divided between the Dominions of Canada and Australia)
Capital Ships. . . . . . . . . . 6 hulls. . . 200,000 tons
Aircraft Carriers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50,000 tons
Cruisers . . . . . . . . . . . ............... . . 200,000 tons
--------((A) Heavy type) . . . . . . . . . .60,000 tons
Destroyers . . . . . . . . . . . . . ......... .80,000 tons
--------((A)Heavy type) . . . . . . . . . .16,000 tons
Submarines . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..... . .41,400 tons
----((A) Heavy type)..... 16 hulls.....20,700 tons
(Unknown tonnage for Coastal Defense Ships)

I'm only bringing it up because it was originally calculated into the CT, and would, in theory balance out the world into the fashion it was originally designed...save that part of it would be north of the United States.

Whatever we split from the UK will be part of the Treaty so Canada or Australia will become treaty signatories immediately.

Everything else doesn´t make sense and will not get my thumb up.

I agree with Hoo, splitting up Canada and Austrailia and tacking on their tonnage limits to the CT works for me.

As for having no player for Canada, I'm willing to fill the role untill we can find a player to take over the role.
I have a few people in mind but perhaps Gravina can find a player eventually if I/we don't?

I'm just putting forth suggestions.

I think by now everyone knows my own stance on the treaty itself, and Chile's objection to joining the treaty.

Nope, I don´t have anyone to take on Canada, I´m just waiting for you to propose someone.

And I don´t really want to open a can of worms about this topic, I understand the concerns that can arise about increasing tonnages for the RAN and RCN, the question is, do you still consider the UK as one of the two superpowers? If so, I cant see the RN getting parity with Russia or the SAE, and that is the only way to give Canada or Australia a navy big enough to work with.

If you don´t want to increase a bit their tonnage the other option is keeping for the RN limits as the one I´ve posted and dividing 50/50 the remaining tonnage between Oz and Canada. That means giving a tonnage limit roughly half the one that have countries such as the Philippines and India, and they have a similar industrial output. And increasing that tonnage means weakening way too much the RN if we still consider the UK to be a superpower.

I merely want we to consider the possibilities.

I could take over Canada, Eh! on a temporary basis if y'all can't find any other sucker - er, Very Interested Player. :-)

(ps - Gravina - your avatar is broken)

returning Oz to their original Treaty allocation and giving Canada the capital ship tonnage suggested by Gravina, deducted from the British allocation? My reasoning here is that during the negotiations the Brits were fully in a position to preserve their end of the "balance of power", and had no need to accept anything less than a good margin of superiority over everyone but the USA.

So here's what His Majesty's Canadian Navy might look like:

Capital ships - 80,000 tons
Carriers - 20,000 tons
Cruisers - 80,000 tons
Destroyers - 32,000 tons

Well Originally I preposed that BCRenown take the role of Canada but he's currently busy, allthough he has expressed interest. Thats why I preposed temperarily taking over Canada till either BCRenown or someone else does.

I could do it. Chile is only as much of a challenge as I make it to be, being a third or fourth rate navy. My lack of Canadian spirit (being from Califonia) and my general disreguard for the Treaty might make me a poor choice for a Treaty nation that has very low limits, but the backup of the Royal Navy helps. But those limits can be worked with.

I can play within limits, but I might go off on a strange tangent every once in a while. (though it would give me more freedom to collaborate the piracy stories from a different point of view). My lack of knowledge on Canada in the 1920s and 1930s might be corrected through coaching and the internet.

Umm, I think the original Australian tonnage (equal to France) was completely implausible, just as Greece with what it has (maybe only without ww1 involvement as Harry had).

I think let Gravina work out something that has a workable mix whether it is a bit larger than the current UK total or not. I'd trust him to recognise megalomania if he reaches it ; )
I also think he should have free hand to resurrect ships if needed to fit a story but that's getting into the realms of changing history.

The RCN need only be big enough to arrest Iberian fishing trawlers. ; )

Cheers,

Does anyone have a reliable source that indicates where the Royal Navy stationed its ship around this time period? Not necessarily there homeports but where their duty stations and patrols where. This might give us a starting point for where things actually where, and then base changes on what the British would do given the political and military situations on Wesworld.

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Umm, I think the original Australian tonnage (equal to France) was completely implausible

You're not the only one. I can handle a Greek/Indian allotment, or something similar as determined by Gravina, but the limits in the treaty need to be changed.

If we don't have a Canadian player, let's just not set Canada in play. Figure out its allocation and starting levels, and leave it until somebody pops up. I mean, it's Canada. Nothing happens around Canada.