WesWorld

...I presume the 115mm guns on your Cathedral Peak class ships are intended to be DP, but are listed as BL.

Also, on your O and Q class submarines, perhaps a QF 105 instead of the BL. While a single cartridge round will be heavier than a separate shell and powder bag, it would seem handling one thing on a sub deck as apposed to 2 would be beneficial. I would guess the QF would also have a higher RoF, but perhaps not.

My $0.02.

Thanks for your feedback. You made a good catch on the mountain class. They were meant to have guns that serve the purpose of firing at low and high angle targets.

Nevertheless, I am left behind confused by the terms you use.

May I ask the question, why you put dual-purpose mounts in opposition to breach-loading guns?

To me, DP refers to a type of mount that allows quick training and high elevation to fight not only surface targets but also aircrafts. It is also more complex and heavier than the standard single-purpose (SP) mount, that serves only the purpose of firing at low angles at surface targets.

To me, the designation SP or DP has no affect on or is influenced by the type of gun used in that mount.

A breach-loading gun is, to me, a gun that can be loaded from behind - either by cartridge (single piece ammunition) or shell and powder (multi piece ammunition) - and is seperated from muzzle loaders. The breach-loading system can be used for all caliber size from small to big.

The designation "quick firing" was introduced in the late 19th century to mark special breach-loading guns of small caliber (approx. up to 5") that were designed to use single piece ammo only and make use of recoil limiting systems to return the gun barrel quickly into position.

So while "quick firing" might be an option, I do not see why "breach loading" should be wrong. Am I in error?

To my understanding of Springsharps definition of different weapon mounts:

BL: Breech Loading. Guns loaded via the breech in the rear of the weapon with separate shell and powder ammunition intended to fire at low angle surface targets without the ability to elevate high enough to effectively engage modern aircraft. RN 6"/50 BL Mark XXIII for example.

QF: Quick Firing. Guns loaded via the breech in the rear of the weapon with single piece (cartridge) ammunition intended to fire at low angle surface targets without the ability to elevate high enough to effectively engage modern aircraft. German 10.5cm/65 SK C/33 for example.

DP: Duel Purpose. Guns loaded via the breech firing single (more likely) OR separate shell and powder ammunition in mounts designed to fire at low angle surface targets OR high angle aerial targets. US 5"/38 Mark 12 for example.

AA: Anti-Aircraft. Guns loaded via the breech firing single piece (cartridge) ammunition in mounts specifically designed to engage aircraft but capable of firing at low level surface targets, but less effectively than BL, QF, or DP mounts. Swedish 40mm/56 Bofors Mark 2 for example.

Springsharp assumes bag and shell ammo for the BL selection with limited elevation (effectively unable to engage aircraft), cartridge ammo for QF guns (still unable to engage aircraft) cartridge ammo for AA with limited anti-ship ability (more due to the fact that nothing over 6.5"/165mm can be AA according to SS) and who knows for DP but they can engage aircraft.

Therefore, what I was saying is that if you want your 115mm guns on your "Mountain Class" to be able to engage aircraft as well as surface targets, by SS definition, they'd have to be DP or AA mounts.

Can you please provide the source for your definitions? You sell them as SS definitions but they differ compared to the Springsharp2 guide I am aware of.

The decision to use either type of gun designation has also no effect on the sim of a ship in SSv2.1.

One should also note that BL and QF are british terms first place, meant to seperate guns of different breech mechanisms and different ammo. Neither definition refers to elevation or limits thereof, like you do, because elevation is not a matter of the gun but of the mount used.

From wiki: "BL, in its general sense, stood for breech loading, and contrasted with Muzzle Loading. [...]" and also wiki: "A breech-loading weapon is a firearm (a rifle, a gun, etc.) in which the cartridge or shell is inserted or loaded into a chamber integral to the rear portion of a barrel. [...] The main challenge for developers of breech-loading weapons was sealing the breech. This was eventually solved for smaller weapons by the development of the self-contained metallic cartridge. For weapons too large to use cartridges, the problem was solved by the development of the interrupted screw." and from NavWeaps: "BL - British designation meaning Breech Loading cannon. [...] By the early part of the twentieth century, BL had become to be used only for bag ammunition guns."

From wiki: "QF came from "Quick-firing". The designation was put into use in late 19th century in two different meanings. In naval terms it was first used to describe small guns firing fixed ammunition i.e. a complete round formed from a metal (brass) cartridge case containing the propellant and projectile in one unit thus enabling higher firing rates. An early example was the QF 6 pounder Hotchkiss. In later pieces, the charge was sometimes separated from the shell to reduce the individual weight of loading, but the charge was still loaded in a brass case, rather than a cloth or silk bag typical of "BL" guns." and from NavWeaps: "QF - British designation meaning Quick Firing cannon. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, this term was used to define any gun that could be fired several times per minute whether it used bag or cartridge ammunition. By the 1920s this designation was given only to guns that used metallic cartridge cases."

According to these definitions both BL and QF guns can be used for either single peace ammo or multi piece ammo. Both can use cartridges to seal the breech. In fact, there is no difference for guns of 6" caliber or less.

[Note that I have edited my entry on the Mountain class. Their main guns are now mounted in dual-purpose mounts.]

From SpringSharp2-1 Guide:

Type: Choose from:
• Muzzle loader – Old style gun loaded from the front.
• Breech loader – Gun loaded through breech in the back of the gun generally slowly with separate shell and charge. Applicable to all early breech loaders but increasingly restricted to larger shells over time.
• Quick firing – Breech loading gun generally with combined shell and charge. Started replacing small to medium calibre guns late in the 19th century. Do not use for large calibre guns called Quick firing because they had brass cartridge charges instead of bagged charges.
• Anti-air – small to medium calibre high angle gun primarily for targeting aircraft or balloons.
• Dual purpose – Medium calibre high angle / low angle gun suitable for air and surface targets.
• Automatic – modern fast loading automatic medium calibre gun, sometimes unmanned. Eg HMS Tiger launched 1945 (6”), USS Des Moines launched 1946 (8”) and USS Worcester launched 1947 (6”).
• Machine gun – light rapid-fire and automatic guns.

Below is NOT from SS guide, just my own conjecture.

The rifle itself in a DP mount could be BL or QF (though they were usually "QF" do to the faster loading of single piece ammunition, AFAIK), but to designate that the weapon is capable of HA and LA fire, for those viewing the report, selecting DP (even though it has no effect on the sim) is, AFAIK, the accepted method.