WesWorld

This is a test. Does this look like a Pre-Dreadnought to you. If so then this is what Chile has (minus modifications for Anti-air warfare).

Based on the 1914 Jane's Fighting Ships.

Coronel Bolognesi (ex-Swiftsure)
General Baquedano (ex-Triumph)

Chilean Pre-Dreadnought laid down 1902

Displacement:
10,277 t light; 10,984 t standard; 11,800 t normal; 12,405 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
458.00 ft / 458.00 ft x 71.00 ft x 24.75 ft (normal load)
139.60 m / 139.60 m x 21.64 m x 7.54 m

Armament:
4 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x2 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
14 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns in single mounts, 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
15 - 3.04" / 77.1 mm guns in single mounts, 14.00lbs / 6.35kg shells, 1902 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 5 raised mounts
4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
4 - 2.29" / 58.2 mm guns in single mounts, 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1902 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1902 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,187 lbs / 2,353 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 347.72 ft / 105.99 m 10.11 ft / 3.08 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 110.28 ft / 33.61 m 10.11 ft / 3.08 m
Main Belt covers 117 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 7.00" / 178 mm - -
3rd: 0.10" / 3 mm - -
4th: 0.10" / 3 mm - -
5th: 0.10" / 3 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.52" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17,018 ihp / 12,695 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 3,000nm at 13.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,468 tons)

Complement:
565 - 735

Cost:
£1.265 million / $5.061 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 648 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 3,200 tons, 27.1 %
- Belts: 1,155 tons, 9.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 948 tons, 8.0 %
- Armour Deck: 985 tons, 8.3 %
- Conning Tower: 112 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,578 tons, 21.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,800 tons, 32.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,523 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,944 lbs / 4,057 Kg = 17.9 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.68

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.513
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.45 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.40 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.54 ft / 7.17 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 14.98 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 14.98 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.98 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 14.98 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 15.66 ft / 4.77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 116.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.7 %
Waterplane Area: 21,129 Square feet or 1,963 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 582 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.83
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

This time an old battleship (laid down 188 after it has been rebuilt once.

Capitan Prat, Chile Old Battleship laid down 1888 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
6,322 t light; 6,648 t standard; 6,901 t normal; 7,076 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
328.00 ft / 328.00 ft x 60.67 ft x 26.20 ft (normal load)
99.97 m / 99.97 m x 18.49 m x 7.99 m

Armament:
2 - 9.40" / 239 mm guns in single mounts, 402.84lbs / 182.72kg shells, 1888 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 9.40" / 239 mm guns in single mounts, 402.84lbs / 182.72kg shells, 1888 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
8 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (4x2 guns), 50.35lbs / 22.84kg shells, 1888 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
14 - 1.27" / 32.3 mm guns in single mounts, 1.00lbs / 0.45kg shells, 1888 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts
6 - 2.31" / 58.7 mm guns in single mounts, 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1888 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 2,064 lbs / 936 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 198.20 ft / 60.41 m 6.50 ft / 1.98 m
Ends: 2.33" / 59 mm 129.80 ft / 39.56 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 2.00" / 51 mm 213.20 ft / 64.98 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 10.5" / 267 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 10.5" / 267 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,403 ihp / 9,253 Kw = 19.50 kts
Range 4,000nm at 8.00 kts (Bunkerage = 455 tons)

Complement:
378 - 492

Cost:
£0.572 million / $2.286 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 258 tons, 3.7 %
Armour: 2,128 tons, 30.8 %
- Belts: 932 tons, 13.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 422 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 680 tons, 9.9 %
- Conning Tower: 94 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 954 tons, 13.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,931 tons, 42.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 579 tons, 8.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,649 lbs / 3,469 Kg = 19.0 x 9.4 " / 239 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.463
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.41 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.65 ft / 6.29 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.68 ft / 5.39 m
- Mid (50 %): 12.68 ft / 3.86 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.68 ft / 3.86 m
- Stern: 12.68 ft / 3.86 m
- Average freeboard: 14.67 ft / 4.47 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.7 %
Waterplane Area: 12,257 Square feet or 1,139 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 701 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 4.15
- Overall: 1.19
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I don't have my Jane's in front of me, but both seem like successful designs to me.

ok, my knowledge of predreads is not all that exhaustive, but 191 mm guns ins casemates? Sounds weird to me, but if the more knowledgeable people confirm it I don't have an issue and just will add it as another weird design to the age of uncertainty.

That was historical for the Swiftsure-class.

Both ships looks fine to me.

Well Cruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had 208mm guns in casemates and the last few classes of American Pre-dreadnoughts had 7 inch guns in casemates. I don't know how effective these weapons were, just that they were there.

191mm guns should be enough to discourage any cruiser or destroyer from making a torpedo run, would you agree?

If Chile plans to keep them though, they need to be modernized to be able to survive submarines and airplane torpedo runs.

Has there been a "Mitchell" like bomb run on a target Dreadnought yet in WesWorld? I mean, has there been any instance of an airplane sinking a battleship?

190 mm guns would be large enough to hurt a would-be torpedo-er, but may be too slow-firing to get the job done.

We assumed that General Mitchell did his thing as per history. I referred to it in some May 1921 news from India - others may have as well. If not, you can always over-react to the Indian attack on Danish ships in August '24.

Early on in the sim Walter and I had an idea about Mitchells famed demonstration, but we never got around to it. I seem to recall that he did post something about it though.

Quoted

Early on in the sim Walter and I had an idea about Mitchells famed demonstration, but we never got around to it. I seem to recall that he did post something about it though.

Indeed. I posted a few bits on Billy Mitchell's demonstrations, but it was more as additional news for my news reports than to be something big.

As long as it happened in some fashion and the results were the same, everything will work just fine...

...Was it still the German Ostfriesland that was used, or did some other poor ship get to be the target?

Quoted

...Was it still the German Ostfriesland that was used, or did some other poor ship get to be the target?

There were more ships sunk during Mitchell's demonstrations, but I believe that Ostfriesland was the only BB sunk by his squadron. I will see if I can find the thread that contain the bits on the demonstrations.

The USN chose the 7" caliber as it was considered to be the largest possible for a QF gun; if the shells got any bigger they'd be impossible to manhandle.

My WW1 Jane's states that Swiftsure had "7.5" loading arrangements...inferior to those of Triumph and cannot maintain the same rate of fire" - wonder why?

Oh, noticed one thing to possibly change on their SpringStyle:

Quoted

Shells per gun, main battery: 150

My source says the 10" battery carried 86 shells per gun (and 150 per 7.5").

A few bits on Mitchell's tests are mentioned in these two links. Not much, but it is there:
http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…996bf272e37c610
http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…996bf272e37c610

The info for the Mitchell demonstrations I got from this page:
http://aerofiles.com/ostfriesland.html