Learnin' the ropes

Beginner

Thursday, September 17th 2009, 11:35pm

I've tinkered with SS once or twice and have drawn a couple small destroyers for Shipbucket (US Gleaves and Porter classes), but I've never been part of an actual design board. I'm eager to learn the ropes, and hopefully to contribute to your community.

Here's my first submission for your consideration:

Source code

Tethys class,   Light Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
	7,800 t light; 8,400 t standard; 9,256 t normal; 9,941 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(560.00 ft / 552.50 ft) x 64.00 ft x (18.00 / 18.97 ft)
	(170.69 m / 168.40 m) x 19.51 m  x (5.49 / 5.78 m)

Armament:
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 114.33lbs / 51.86kg shells, 200 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1939 Model
	  4 x Triple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
		2 raised mounts
      16 - 5.25" / 133 mm 50.0 cal guns - 76.59lbs / 34.74kg shells, 340 per gun
	  Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1939 Model
	  8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
		4 raised mounts
      16 - 1.57" / 39.9 mm 39.0 cal guns - 1.85lbs / 0.84kg shells, 1,800 per gun
	  Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1939 Model
	  2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
		2 raised mounts
      16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 62.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2,500 per gun
	  Machine guns in deck mounts, 1939 Model
	  4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 2,628 lbs / 1,192 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      6 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m torpedoes - 1.615 t each, 9.693 t total
	In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	3.50" / 89 mm	342.55 ft / 104.41 m	9.60 ft / 2.93 m
	Ends:	Unarmoured
	  Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
		1.50" / 38 mm	342.55 ft / 104.41 m	16.16 ft / 4.93 m
	Beam between torpedo bulkheads 60.00 ft / 18.29 m

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	5.00" / 127 mm	2.00" / 51 mm		4.00" / 102 mm
	2nd:	3.00" / 76 mm	1.00" / 25 mm		2.00" / 51 mm
	3rd:	1.57" / 40 mm	      -			      -
	4th:	0.50" / 13 mm	      -			      -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
	2.00" / 51 mm
	Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.50" / 64 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
	Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Geared drive, 4 shafts, 49,492 shp / 36,921 Kw = 29.00 kts
	Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 1,541 tons

Complement:
	471 - 613

Cost:
	£4.282 million / $17.127 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 668 tons, 7.2 %
	   - Guns: 648 tons, 7.0 %
	   - Weapons: 19 tons, 0.2 %
	Armour: 1,955 tons, 21.1 %
	   - Belts: 485 tons, 5.2 %
	   - Torpedo bulkhead: 307 tons, 3.3 %
	   - Armament: 422 tons, 4.6 %
	   - Armour Deck: 716 tons, 7.7 %
	   - Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.3 %
	Machinery: 1,339 tons, 14.5 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,838 tons, 41.5 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,456 tons, 15.7 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  15,909 lbs / 7,216 Kg = 147.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
	Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
	Roll period: 15.0 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and large transom stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.509 / 0.519
	Length to Beam Ratio: 8.63 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 27.11 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20.00 %,  28.00 ft / 8.53 m,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m
	   - Forward deck:	35.00 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
	   - Aft deck:	27.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
	   - Quarter deck:	18.00 %,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
	   - Average freeboard:		20.57 ft / 6.27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.3 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.5 %
	Waterplane Area: 24,707 Square feet or 2,295 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 593 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 1.02
		- Longitudinal: 1.73
		- Overall: 1.07
	Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
	Excellent accommodation and workspace room
	Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Go to the top of the page

Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

2

Thursday, September 17th 2009, 11:50pm

Interesting design, and pretty impressive specifications.

However, I think the TDS is doing more harm than good: the armour will severely cut into her engineering spaces. I'd remove it and see if you can boost the speed up another two knots or so.

Go to the top of the page

Eidolon

Beginner

Posts: 19

3

Friday, September 18th 2009, 6:59am

I had to stretch her out a bit, but she gained longer legs and a bit over two knots. Setting the trim to 56 gave her the "steady gun platform" rating. Are there guidelines concerning trim? Also, is it safe to assume that having >1.0 composite means growth potential?

Source code

Tethys class,  Light Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
	9,399 t light; 10,045 t standard; 11,586 t normal; 12,818 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(608.04 ft / 600.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (20.00 / 21.58 ft)
	(185.33 m / 182.88 m) x 19.51 m  x (6.10 / 6.58 m)

Armament:
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 114.33lbs / 51.86kg shells, 200 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1939 Model
	  4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
		2 raised mounts
      16 - 5.25" / 133 mm 50.0 cal guns - 76.59lbs / 34.74kg shells, 340 per gun
	  Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1939 Model
	  8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
		4 raised mounts
      16 - 1.57" / 39.9 mm 39.0 cal guns - 1.85lbs / 0.84kg shells, 1,800 per gun
	  Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1939 Model
	  2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
		2 raised mounts
      16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2,500 per gun
	  Machine guns in deck mounts, 1939 Model
	  4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
		4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,628 lbs / 1,192 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      6 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m torpedoes - 1.615 t each, 9.693 t total
	In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	3.50" / 89 mm	372.00 ft / 113.39 m	9.60 ft / 2.93 m
	Ends:	Unarmoured
	  Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	5.00" / 127 mm	2.00" / 51 mm		4.00" / 102 mm
	2nd:	3.00" / 76 mm	1.00" / 25 mm		2.00" / 51 mm
	3rd:	1.57" / 40 mm	      -			      -
	4th:	0.50" / 13 mm	      -			      -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
	2.00" / 51 mm
	Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.00" / 51 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
	Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Geared drive, 4 shafts, 75,268 shp / 56,150 Kw = 31.36 kts
	Range 12,995nm at 14.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 2,773 tons

Complement:
	557 - 725

Cost:
	£5.175 million / $20.698 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 755 tons, 6.5 %
	   - Guns: 735 tons, 6.3 %
	   - Weapons: 19 tons, 0.2 %
	Armour: 1,881 tons, 16.2 %
	   - Belts: 523 tons, 4.5 %
	   - Armament: 457 tons, 3.9 %
	   - Armour Deck: 880 tons, 7.6 %
	   - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.2 %
	Machinery: 2,036 tons, 17.6 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,726 tons, 40.8 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,187 tons, 18.9 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  17,942 lbs / 8,138 Kg = 166.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
	Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
	Roll period: 16.1 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and large transom stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.528 / 0.541
	Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 28.00 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20.00 %,  30.00 ft / 9.14 m,  26.00 ft / 7.92 m
	   - Forward deck:	35.00 %,  26.00 ft / 7.92 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Aft deck:	27.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Quarter deck:	18.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Average freeboard:		22.57 ft / 6.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.3 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 198.5 %
	Waterplane Area: 27,319 Square feet or 2,538 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 581 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 1.00
		- Longitudinal: 1.78
		- Overall: 1.06
	Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
	Excellent accommodation and workspace room
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Go to the top of the page

ShinRa_Inc

Mad Scientist at Work

Posts: 4,307

4

Friday, September 18th 2009, 7:17am

Quoted

Originally posted by Eidolon
Also, is it safe to assume that having >1.0 composite means growth potential?

We allocate the Miscellaneous Weight statistic to account for various equipment not accountable in Springsharp itself (Torpedo reloads, ASW gear, Electronics, Aviation, etc). Misc weight can also be reserved for future growth; Very few players have designs with excess hull strength, as there's almost always something worth improving; either improving the stats like Speed or Range, or finessing the displacement values to be smaller; the less Light Displacement your ship comes in at, the less it will cost to build.

Go to the top of the page

Eidolon

Beginner

Posts: 19

5

Friday, September 18th 2009, 7:25am

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
We allocate the Miscellaneous Weight statistic to account for various equipment not accountable in Springsharp itself (Torpedo reloads, ASW gear, Electronics, Aviation, etc). Misc weight can also be reserved for future growth; Very few players have designs with excess hull strength, as there's almost always something worth improving; either improving the stats like Speed or Range, or finessing the displacement values to be smaller; the less Light Displacement your ship comes in at, the less it will cost to build.

Ah, ok. Thank you.

The main reason for the composite score being at 1.06 is because the cross sectional strength rating drops below 1.00 on me. Is there a way to retain 1+ CSS without tacking on the tonnage?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Eidolon" (Sep 18th 2009, 7:25am)

Go to the top of the page

Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

6

Friday, September 18th 2009, 11:35am

Quoted

Originally posted by Eidolon

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
We allocate the Miscellaneous Weight statistic to account for various equipment not accountable in Springsharp itself (Torpedo reloads, ASW gear, Electronics, Aviation, etc). Misc weight can also be reserved for future growth; Very few players have designs with excess hull strength, as there's almost always something worth improving; either improving the stats like Speed or Range, or finessing the displacement values to be smaller; the less Light Displacement your ship comes in at, the less it will cost to build.

Ah, ok. Thank you.

The main reason for the composite score being at 1.06 is because the cross sectional strength rating drops below 1.00 on me. Is there a way to retain 1+ CSS without tacking on the tonnage?

Not that I know of. For us, CSS is generally less important than composite, as long as CSS stays above 0.50 you're good by our rules.

The revised design looks pretty solid, though I'd be a little dubious about the 5.25". Right now, you have no heavy AA at all (the 5.25" aren't mounted in DP mountings), and if you did mount them in DP mountings, you'd end up with guns that are hard to work for long at the elevations you need.

Go to the top of the page

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

7

Friday, September 18th 2009, 12:03pm

The 6" and 5.25" guns are a strange mix. I think I'd either go with all 5.25" armament or 6" + 4" in order to give better all round capability.

Cross sectional strength is perpendicular to the centreline. The bending moments will be reduced by either narrower beam or greater hull depth.

Go to the top of the page

Eidolon

Beginner

Posts: 19

8

Friday, September 18th 2009, 1:53pm

I was basing the 5.25 on 5.25"/50 QF Mark I which was DP. I figured it was ok to fudge in service dates a bit. Perhaps QF vs DP on SS is a tomato-tomahto situation?

The lighter AA was meant to be more in line with that found on as-built Didos, which means pom-poms and Vickers .50 machine guns.

I'm up feeding the baby, so maybe I'll take the time to crunch some different guns. I appreciate the feedback.

Go to the top of the page

Eidolon

Beginner

Posts: 19

9

Friday, September 18th 2009, 2:12pm

Here she is with 4" secondaries. I was able to squeeze another third of a knot speed out of her and cut nearly 400 tons off light displacement.

Source code

Tethys class,  Light Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
	9,020 t light; 9,538 t standard; 11,015 t normal; 12,197 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(608.04 ft / 600.00 ft) x 64.00 ft x (20.00 / 21.55 ft)
	(185.33 m / 182.88 m) x 19.51 m  x (6.10 / 6.57 m)

Armament:
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 114.33lbs / 51.86kg shells, 200 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1939 Model
	  4 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
		2 raised mounts
      16 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 400 per gun
	  Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1939 Model
	  8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
		4 raised mounts
      16 - 1.57" / 39.9 mm 39.0 cal guns - 1.85lbs / 0.84kg shells, 1,800 per gun
	  Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1939 Model
	  2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
		2 raised mounts
      16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 2,500 per gun
	  Machine guns in deck mounts, 1939 Model
	  4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
		4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,919 lbs / 870 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      6 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m torpedoes - 1.615 t each, 9.693 t total
	In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	3.50" / 89 mm	372.00 ft / 113.39 m	9.60 ft / 2.93 m
	Ends:	Unarmoured
	  Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	5.00" / 127 mm	2.00" / 51 mm		4.00" / 102 mm
	2nd:	2.00" / 51 mm	1.00" / 25 mm		2.00" / 51 mm
	3rd:	1.57" / 40 mm	      -			      -
	4th:	0.50" / 13 mm	      -			      -

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
	2.00" / 51 mm
	Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.00" / 51 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
	Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Geared drive, 4 shafts, 74,983 shp / 55,937 Kw = 31.69 kts
	Range 12,847nm at 14.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 2,659 tons

Complement:
	536 - 698

Cost:
	£4.629 million / $18.516 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 583 tons, 5.3 %
	   - Guns: 563 tons, 5.1 %
	   - Weapons: 19 tons, 0.2 %
	Armour: 1,878 tons, 17.1 %
	   - Belts: 522 tons, 4.7 %
	   - Armament: 438 tons, 4.0 %
	   - Armour Deck: 897 tons, 8.1 %
	   - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.2 %
	Machinery: 2,029 tons, 18.4 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,530 tons, 41.1 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,995 tons, 18.1 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  18,217 lbs / 8,263 Kg = 168.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
	Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
	Roll period: 15.7 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and large transom stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.502 / 0.516
	Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 28.09 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20.00 %,  30.00 ft / 9.14 m,  26.00 ft / 7.92 m
	   - Forward deck:	35.00 %,  26.00 ft / 7.92 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Aft deck:	27.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Quarter deck:	18.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m
	   - Average freeboard:		22.57 ft / 6.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.2 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 201.2 %
	Waterplane Area: 26,656 Square feet or 2,476 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 141 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 560 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 1.00
		- Longitudinal: 1.80
		- Overall: 1.06
	Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
	Excellent accommodation and workspace room
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Eidolon" (Sep 18th 2009, 2:12pm)

Go to the top of the page

Red Admiral

Italian Stallion

Posts: 7,019

10

Friday, September 18th 2009, 5:04pm

The 5.25" is a fairly heavy weapon and similar to the 6" in capability. I'd either go for all 5.25" guns or 6" and a lighter calibre. There was a Fiji variant with seven 5.25" mountings instead of the 6" but it was rejected because of the greater range of the 6" gun against surface targets.

Go to the top of the page

thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

11

Friday, September 18th 2009, 6:39pm

Also keep in mind when you tack on all these guns that you have even a basic drawing-to-scale handy for referance. You may find you won't be able to fit 16 secondary guns.

Go to the top of the page

Rooijen10

Mr. Valentines Day

Posts: 9,644

12

Friday, September 18th 2009, 6:57pm

Of course you can fit 16 secondary guns! Whether you got space left for the superstructure after fitting those guns is another matter.

Go to the top of the page

thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

13

Friday, September 18th 2009, 7:02pm

Who needs crew comforts?!

Go to the top of the page

Rooijen10

Mr. Valentines Day

Posts: 9,644

14

Friday, September 18th 2009, 7:06pm

Exactly. It ain't a cruise ship, it's a cruiser.

Go to the top of the page

thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

Posts: 13,513

15

Friday, September 18th 2009, 7:09pm

Might as well make it a Bruiser!

Go to the top of the page

ShinRa_Inc

Mad Scientist at Work

Posts: 4,307

16

Friday, September 18th 2009, 8:16pm

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Also keep in mind when you tack on all these guns that you have even a basic drawing-to-scale handy for referance. You may find you won't be able to fit 16 secondary guns.

Ah, another excuse to frighten small children with the proposed 20 gun Labrador....

Labrador-20 came in under 8k tons cost, as I recall, too. (:

Go to the top of the page

Rooijen10

Mr. Valentines Day

Posts: 9,644

17

Friday, September 18th 2009, 8:39pm

Quoted

Ah, another excuse to frighten small children with the proposed 20 gun Labrador....

I seriously doubt the little kiddies would be impressed by that. That CanisD ship with sextuple 16" turrets... now that one would scare even the most fearless of Vikings and send them crying and running for their mommies!