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River Class, Denmark Patrol boat laid down 1924

K.D.M. Aabenraa

K.D.M. Arnaa

K.D.M. Bredeaa

K.D.M. Fladaa

K.D.M. Gelsaa

K.D.M. Gronaa

K.D.M. Holmeaa

K.D.M. Kongeaa

K.D.M. Sneumaa

K.D.M. Sonderaa

K.D.M. Vardeaa

K.D.M. Lydumaa

K.D.M. Hoveraa

Displacement:

237 t light; 250 t standard; 283 t normal; 308 t full load

Loading submergence 56 tons/feet

Dimensions:

150.00 ft x 25.00 ft x 7.00 ft (normal load)

45.72 m x 7.62 m x 2.13 m

Armament:

2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns

4 - 2.24" / 57 mm guns

4 - 0.79" / 20 mm AA guns

8 - 0.51" / 13 mm guns

Weight of broadside 88 lbs / 40 kg

Armour:

Main gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm, 2nd gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm

AA gun shields 0.50" / 13 mm

Conning tower 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,623 shp / 1,211 Kw = 18.00 kts

Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts

Complement:

34 - 44

Cost:

£0.077 million / $0.309 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 11 tons, 3.9 %

Armour: 4 tons, 1.5 %

Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %, Armament: 3 tons, 1.2 %, Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 53 tons, 18.9 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 138 tons, 48.9 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 46 tons, 16.2 %

Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 10.6 %

Metacentric height 0.7

Remarks:

Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate

Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.04

Shellfire needed to sink: 377 lbs / 171 Kg = 11.8 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells

(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.4

(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform: 70 %

(Average = 50 %)

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.28

Relative quality as seaboat: 1.21

Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.377

Sharpness coefficient: 0.34

Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6.98

'Natural speed' for length: 12.25 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %

Trim: 58

(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:

Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 103.1 %

Relative accommodation and working space: 99.4 %

(Average = 100%)

Displacement factor: 123 %

(Displacement relative to loading factors)

Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.85

(Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs / square foot or 192 Kg / square metre)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 4.33

(for 9.10 ft / 2.77 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 1.68 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

4" guns, those reclaimed from scrapped vessels, are to be used in this class.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Aug 31st 2011, 11:06pm)

Lake, Denmark Patrol Boat, laid down 1930

K.D.M. Madum So

K.D.M. Store Oksso

K.D.M. Teglso

K.D.M. Gandrup So

K.D.M. Stormose

K.D.M. Snaebun So

K.D.M. Klejtrup So

K.D.M. Haerup So

K.D.M. Radso

K.D.M. Tjele Langso

K.D.M. Norreso

K.D.M. Sonderso

K.D.M. Hald So

K.D.M. Tange So

K.D.M. Ormstrup So

K.D.M. Vintmille So

K.D.M. Alling So

K.D.M. Vedso

Displacement:

416 t light; 439 t standard; 555 t normal; 648 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

186.24 ft / 175.00 ft x 27.00 ft x 8.00 ft (normal load)

56.77 m / 53.34 m x 8.23 m x 2.44 m

Armament:

2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1930 Model

Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount

4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1930 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring

8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1930 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 132 lbs / 60 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -

2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,466 shp / 1,840 Kw = 18.00 kts

Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 208 tons

Complement:

56 - 74

Cost:

£0.163 million / $0.650 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 16 tons, 3.0 %

Armour: 20 tons, 3.6 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 17 tons, 3.0 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.5 %

Machinery: 75 tons, 13.5 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 245 tons, 44.2 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 139 tons, 25.0 %

Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 10.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

891 lbs / 404 Kg = 16.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00

Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m

Roll period: 13.6 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak

Block coefficient: 0.514

Length to Beam Ratio: 6.48 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 13.23 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

- Forecastle (20 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m

- Mid (50 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m (6.00 ft / 1.83 m aft of break)

- Quarterdeck (15 %): 6.00 ft / 1.83 m

- Stern: 6.00 ft / 1.83 m

- Average freeboard: 10.16 ft / 3.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.1 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.1 %

Waterplane Area: 3,189 Square feet or 296 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 223 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.85

- Longitudinal: 4.26

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

40 depth Charges carried

K.D.M. Madum So

K.D.M. Store Oksso

K.D.M. Teglso

K.D.M. Gandrup So

K.D.M. Stormose

K.D.M. Snaebun So

K.D.M. Klejtrup So

K.D.M. Haerup So

K.D.M. Radso

K.D.M. Tjele Langso

K.D.M. Norreso

K.D.M. Sonderso

K.D.M. Hald So

K.D.M. Tange So

K.D.M. Ormstrup So

K.D.M. Vintmille So

K.D.M. Alling So

K.D.M. Vedso

Displacement:

416 t light; 439 t standard; 555 t normal; 648 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

186.24 ft / 175.00 ft x 27.00 ft x 8.00 ft (normal load)

56.77 m / 53.34 m x 8.23 m x 2.44 m

Armament:

2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1930 Model

Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount

4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1930 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring

8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1930 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists

on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 132 lbs / 60 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -

2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,466 shp / 1,840 Kw = 18.00 kts

Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 208 tons

Complement:

56 - 74

Cost:

£0.163 million / $0.650 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 16 tons, 3.0 %

Armour: 20 tons, 3.6 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 17 tons, 3.0 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.5 %

Machinery: 75 tons, 13.5 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 245 tons, 44.2 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 139 tons, 25.0 %

Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 10.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

891 lbs / 404 Kg = 16.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00

Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m

Roll period: 13.6 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak

Block coefficient: 0.514

Length to Beam Ratio: 6.48 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 13.23 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

- Forecastle (20 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m

- Mid (50 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m (6.00 ft / 1.83 m aft of break)

- Quarterdeck (15 %): 6.00 ft / 1.83 m

- Stern: 6.00 ft / 1.83 m

- Average freeboard: 10.16 ft / 3.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.1 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.1 %

Waterplane Area: 3,189 Square feet or 296 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 223 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.85

- Longitudinal: 4.26

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

40 depth Charges carried

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Jun 12th 2008, 2:42pm)

Village, Denmark, Patrol Boat/Coast Guard Cutter, laid down 1937

K.D.M. Aggersborg

K.D.M. Assens

K.D.M. Bogeskov

K.D.M. Bjerregard

K.D.M. Christianfeld

K.D.M. Clemmensgaard

K.D.M. Draby

K.D.M. Dybe

K.D.M. Eskor

K.D.M. Enebærodde

K.D.M. Frydenborg

K.D.M. Felstedskov

K.D.M. Gughjem

K.D.M. Gedser

K.D.M. Hammershus

K.D.M. Hesnaes

K.D.M. Ishoj

K.D.M. Ikast

K.D.M. Jersie

K.D.M. Jante

K.D.M. Klattrup

K.D.M. Koldkaer

K.D.M. Lystrup

K.D.M. Lyngsa

K.D.M. Mastrup

K.D.M. Marup

K.D.M. Nordby

K.D.M. Norsminde

K.D.M. Osterby

K.D.M. Oby

K.D.M. Pirupshvarre

K.D.M. Pebersmark

K.D.M. Ringkobing

K.D.M. Ronde

K.D.M. Sabro

K.D.M. Struer

K.D.M. Tastum

K.D.M. Tendrup

K.D.M. Uggerby

K.D.M. Ubby

K.D.M. Verup

K.D.M. Vesterby

K.D.M. Yoby

K.D.M. Yderby

K.D.M. Æroskoking

K.D.M. Æbelnaes

K.D.M. Østerkov

K.D.M. Øverød

K.D.M.

K.D.M.

Displacement:

196 t light (Wood) ; 204 t standard; 220 t normal; 233 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

133.28 ft / 120.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 5.00 ft (normal load)

40.62 m / 36.58 m x 9.14 m x 1.52 m

Armament:

1 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1937 Model

Dual purpose gun in deck mount

on centreline forward

2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1937 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mount

on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring

4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts

on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

Weight of broadside 65 lbs / 29 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 1 shaft, 804 shp / 600 Kw = 16.00 kts

Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 29 tons

Complement:

28 - 37

Cost:

£0.092 million / $0.367 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 8 tons, 3.7 %

Armour: 7 tons, 3.1 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 6 tons, 2.8 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %

Machinery: 22 tons, 10.1 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 119 tons, 54.0 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 24 tons, 10.9 %

Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 18.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

556 lbs / 252 Kg = 10.5 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05

Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m

Roll period: 13.3 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak

and transom stern

Block coefficient: 0.428

Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 13.86 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m

- Forecastle (20 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m

- Mid (33 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)

- Quarterdeck (15 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m

- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m

- Average freeboard: 11.57 ft / 3.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.2 %

Waterplane Area: 2,343 Square feet or 218 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 141 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 160 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.77

- Longitudinal: 10.67

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

K.D.M. Aggersborg

K.D.M. Assens

K.D.M. Bogeskov

K.D.M. Bjerregard

K.D.M. Christianfeld

K.D.M. Clemmensgaard

K.D.M. Draby

K.D.M. Dybe

K.D.M. Eskor

K.D.M. Enebærodde

K.D.M. Frydenborg

K.D.M. Felstedskov

K.D.M. Gughjem

K.D.M. Gedser

K.D.M. Hammershus

K.D.M. Hesnaes

K.D.M. Ishoj

K.D.M. Ikast

K.D.M. Jersie

K.D.M. Jante

K.D.M. Klattrup

K.D.M. Koldkaer

K.D.M. Lystrup

K.D.M. Lyngsa

K.D.M. Mastrup

K.D.M. Marup

K.D.M. Nordby

K.D.M. Norsminde

K.D.M. Osterby

K.D.M. Oby

K.D.M. Pirupshvarre

K.D.M. Pebersmark

K.D.M. Ringkobing

K.D.M. Ronde

K.D.M. Sabro

K.D.M. Struer

K.D.M. Tastum

K.D.M. Tendrup

K.D.M. Uggerby

K.D.M. Ubby

K.D.M. Verup

K.D.M. Vesterby

K.D.M. Yoby

K.D.M. Yderby

K.D.M. Æroskoking

K.D.M. Æbelnaes

K.D.M. Østerkov

K.D.M. Øverød

K.D.M.

K.D.M.

Displacement:

196 t light (Wood) ; 204 t standard; 220 t normal; 233 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

133.28 ft / 120.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 5.00 ft (normal load)

40.62 m / 36.58 m x 9.14 m x 1.52 m

Armament:

1 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1937 Model

Dual purpose gun in deck mount

on centreline forward

2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1937 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mount

on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring

4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model

Dual purpose guns in deck mounts

on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

Weight of broadside 65 lbs / 29 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 1 shaft, 804 shp / 600 Kw = 16.00 kts

Range 3,500nm at 10.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 29 tons

Complement:

28 - 37

Cost:

£0.092 million / $0.367 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 8 tons, 3.7 %

Armour: 7 tons, 3.1 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 6 tons, 2.8 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %

Machinery: 22 tons, 10.1 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 119 tons, 54.0 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 24 tons, 10.9 %

Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 18.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

556 lbs / 252 Kg = 10.5 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05

Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m

Roll period: 13.3 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak

and transom stern

Block coefficient: 0.428

Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 13.86 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m

- Forecastle (20 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m

- Mid (33 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)

- Quarterdeck (15 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m

- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m

- Average freeboard: 11.57 ft / 3.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.2 %

Waterplane Area: 2,343 Square feet or 218 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 141 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 160 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.77

- Longitudinal: 10.67

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

This post has been edited 5 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Sep 20th 2010, 7:50pm)

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