USS South Dakota, United States Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:

55,749 t light; 58,973 t standard; 63,460 t normal; 67,050 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)

(962.00 ft / 925.00 ft) x 115.00 ft x (36.00 / 37.65 ft)

(293.22 m / 281.94 m) x 35.05 m x (10.97 / 11.47 m)

Armament:

8 - 18.00" / 457 mm 47.0 cal guns - 3,850.00lbs / 1,746.33kg shells, 100 per gun

Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1937 Model

4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

2 raised mounts - superfiring

20 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 360 per gun

Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1937 Model

10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread

4 raised mounts

56 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm 89.0 cal guns - 0.77lbs / 0.35kg shells, 900 per gun

Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model

12 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread

6 raised mounts

2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

1 double raised mount - superfiring

16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1,200 per gun

Machine guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model

8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread

8 double raised mounts

Weight of broadside 31,948 lbs / 14,491 kg

Armour:

- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)

Main: 17.0" / 432 mm 575.35 ft / 175.37 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

Ends: Unarmoured

Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 575.35 ft / 175.37 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m

Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:

3.00" / 76 mm 575.35 ft / 175.37 m 33.95 ft / 10.35 m

Beam between torpedo bulkheads 108.00 ft / 32.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 22.0" / 559 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 17.5" / 445 mm

2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armoured deck - single deck:

For and Aft decks: 6.75" / 171 mm

Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 18.00" / 457 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Electric motors, 4 shafts, 141,612 shp / 105,643 Kw = 28.00 kts

Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 8,078 tons

Complement:

1,998 - 2,598

Cost:

£27.084 million / $108.334 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 5,014 tons, 7.9 %

- Guns: 5,014 tons, 7.9 %

Armour: 23,506 tons, 37.0 %

- Belts: 6,948 tons, 10.9 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,168 tons, 3.4 %

- Armament: 5,237 tons, 8.3 %

- Armour Deck: 8,536 tons, 13.5 %

- Conning Tower: 617 tons, 1.0 %

Machinery: 3,925 tons, 6.2 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 22,935 tons, 36.1 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,711 tons, 12.2 %

Miscellaneous weights: 370 tons, 0.6 %

- On freeboard deck: 220 tons

- Above deck: 150 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

95,668 lbs / 43,394 Kg = 32.8 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 18.0 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10

Metacentric height 7.4 ft / 2.3 m

Roll period: 17.8 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck,

a normal bow and a cruiser stern

Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.580 / 0.586

Length to Beam Ratio: 8.04 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 30.41 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m

Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):

Fore end, Aft end

- Forecastle: 19.90 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m

- Forward deck: 30.10 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

- Aft deck: 32.10 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

- Quarter deck: 17.90 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

- Average freeboard: 19.97 ft / 6.09 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.3 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.1 %

Waterplane Area: 76,357 Square feet or 7,094 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 242 lbs/sq ft or 1,181 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 1.01

- Longitudinal: 0.99

- Overall: 1.00

Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space

Excellent accommodation and workspace room

100 tons reserved for aircraft

50 tons reserved for radar

60 tons reserved for flag quarters

50 tons reserved for growth

Belt armor is composed of a 3" decapping plate, carried to main deck height as upper belt armor, backed by a 14" main belt.

Displacement:

55,749 t light; 58,973 t standard; 63,460 t normal; 67,050 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)

(962.00 ft / 925.00 ft) x 115.00 ft x (36.00 / 37.65 ft)

(293.22 m / 281.94 m) x 35.05 m x (10.97 / 11.47 m)

Armament:

8 - 18.00" / 457 mm 47.0 cal guns - 3,850.00lbs / 1,746.33kg shells, 100 per gun

Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1937 Model

4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

2 raised mounts - superfiring

20 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 360 per gun

Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1937 Model

10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread

4 raised mounts

56 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm 89.0 cal guns - 0.77lbs / 0.35kg shells, 900 per gun

Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model

12 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread

6 raised mounts

2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

1 double raised mount - superfiring

16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1,200 per gun

Machine guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model

8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread

8 double raised mounts

Weight of broadside 31,948 lbs / 14,491 kg

Armour:

- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)

Main: 17.0" / 432 mm 575.35 ft / 175.37 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

Ends: Unarmoured

Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 575.35 ft / 175.37 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m

Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:

3.00" / 76 mm 575.35 ft / 175.37 m 33.95 ft / 10.35 m

Beam between torpedo bulkheads 108.00 ft / 32.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 22.0" / 559 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 17.5" / 445 mm

2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armoured deck - single deck:

For and Aft decks: 6.75" / 171 mm

Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 18.00" / 457 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Electric motors, 4 shafts, 141,612 shp / 105,643 Kw = 28.00 kts

Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 8,078 tons

Complement:

1,998 - 2,598

Cost:

£27.084 million / $108.334 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 5,014 tons, 7.9 %

- Guns: 5,014 tons, 7.9 %

Armour: 23,506 tons, 37.0 %

- Belts: 6,948 tons, 10.9 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,168 tons, 3.4 %

- Armament: 5,237 tons, 8.3 %

- Armour Deck: 8,536 tons, 13.5 %

- Conning Tower: 617 tons, 1.0 %

Machinery: 3,925 tons, 6.2 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 22,935 tons, 36.1 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,711 tons, 12.2 %

Miscellaneous weights: 370 tons, 0.6 %

- On freeboard deck: 220 tons

- Above deck: 150 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

95,668 lbs / 43,394 Kg = 32.8 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 18.0 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10

Metacentric height 7.4 ft / 2.3 m

Roll period: 17.8 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck,

a normal bow and a cruiser stern

Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.580 / 0.586

Length to Beam Ratio: 8.04 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 30.41 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m

Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):

Fore end, Aft end

- Forecastle: 19.90 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m

- Forward deck: 30.10 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

- Aft deck: 32.10 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

- Quarter deck: 17.90 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m

- Average freeboard: 19.97 ft / 6.09 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 60.3 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.1 %

Waterplane Area: 76,357 Square feet or 7,094 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 242 lbs/sq ft or 1,181 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 1.01

- Longitudinal: 0.99

- Overall: 1.00

Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space

Excellent accommodation and workspace room

100 tons reserved for aircraft

50 tons reserved for radar

60 tons reserved for flag quarters

50 tons reserved for growth

Belt armor is composed of a 3" decapping plate, carried to main deck height as upper belt armor, backed by a 14" main belt.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Hrolf Hakonson" (Jan 3rd 2009, 6:40pm)

The US hasn't designed and built a battleship since the mid 1910s and this design is twice as big. Its rather a large jump up. It would be nice to go straight to the large design but I think it would be wiser to go for a 35-45000ton design first. Iowa with 6x18" guns?

## Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99

but that should be only rumors akin to the ones about Japanese supercruisers in OTL.

And yet the rumors of Japanese supercruisers and pocket battleships are what got the Alaskas built

I'm falling short of the logic in requiring the USN to build 'medium' ships when it has a vested interest in producing ships capable of meeting it's contemporaries on equal or better footing; building a class of ships designed to deal with ships from 5 years ago instead of what's being built, or will be built doesn't seem to be the wisest course of action. The policy Canis went with and Hrolf followed of not building anything until now means that that kind of leapfrogging is what's needed, unless political considerations get involved.

it's also worth remembering that the 6 Tennesee/Colorados are getting a 16" upgunning and speed boost, filling that gap somewhat, in addition to the lexington's getting a similar modernization.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ShinRa_Inc" (Jan 3rd 2009, 11:19pm)

I don't see a problem with the USN going big; why not? All Hrolf's points are valid.

Let's not forget that even the rumors of the Japanese supercruisers tempted the USN to build two*Alaskas*, work on a third, and plan for three more! As to expertise, they've built the *Almirante Gideon* within the last ten years, giving them somewhat modern insights on armour, protection, etc; they've got even more recent experience from the 12x8" heavy cruisers for gun directors and such; and now they're regunning all of the Big Five. I don't see how that translates into an automatic loss of shipbuilding skill regarding battleships. Sure, new stuff has to be relearned, but that's true for any new warship.

(And ShinRa beat me to posting and covered all the points I wanted to touch on.)

Let's not forget that even the rumors of the Japanese supercruisers tempted the USN to build two

(And ShinRa beat me to posting and covered all the points I wanted to touch on.)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Brockpaine" (Jan 3rd 2009, 11:33pm)

If theres no problems in going to the larger ship then why not go further to 100,000tons with 12x20" guns in order to match anything possible?

I do however agree that there is the possibility that some building knowledge would be lost due to the lack of experience. Almirante Gideon really only gains moderate experience over the Tennessee class on a smaller hull.

I'd expect the U.S. to go with numbers, both in hulls and guns, like they did historically but thats just me. I'd find more use in a 48,000 ton design with 9-12x16" and 30 knots speed.

Even so is an 18in gun really superior to a 16in? 18in has blast problems which influences the design further (ie I don't want to be the gunner in one of the those 1.1in AA guns when those 18in guns fire!)

The RN is looking at the possibilty of the 16.5in gun entering service on a replacement class for the QEs.

Sure, a country could build a 100,000 ton ship, but since it wouldn't be completed for 9 years, there's little to no point. Given the lack of new ships in the USN inventory, such a delay is intolerable.

How difficult it would be for a country to make such a leap is also questionable: consider the historical IJN

Here in WW, there's an additional political consideration pushing the USN towards a larger gun: the USN went through the Cleito period with the smallest main battery of the major powers, using 14" guns rather than the 15" guns of the other powers. There's a strong push on political lines not to allow that to happen again.

USS Iowa, United States Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:

49,253 t light; 51,852 t standard; 55,987 t normal; 59,295 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)

(937.00 ft / 900.00 ft) x 108.00 ft x (36.00 / 37.69 ft)

(285.60 m / 274.32 m) x 32.92 m x (10.97 / 11.49 m)

Armament:

6 - 18.00" / 457 mm 47.0 cal guns - 3,850.00lbs / 1,746.33kg shells, 100 per gun

Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1937 Model

3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward

1 raised mount - superfiring

16 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 360 per gun

Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1937 Model

8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread

4 raised mounts

48 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm 89.0 cal guns - 0.77lbs / 0.35kg shells, 900 per gun

Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model

10 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread

6 raised mounts

2 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread

1 double raised mount - superfiring

16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 90.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1,200 per gun

Machine guns in deck mounts, 1937 Model

8 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread

8 double raised mounts

Weight of broadside 24,021 lbs / 10,896 kg

Armour:

- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)

Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 585.00 ft / 178.31 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m

Ends: Unarmoured

Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 585.00 ft / 178.31 m 3.00 ft / 0.91 m

Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:

2.00" / 51 mm 585.00 ft / 178.31 m 33.63 ft / 10.25 m

Beam between torpedo bulkheads 101.00 ft / 30.78 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 20.0" / 508 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 16.0" / 406 mm

2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armoured deck - single deck:

For and Aft decks: 6.25" / 159 mm

Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 4.00" / 102 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 16.00" / 406 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,

Electric motors, 4 shafts, 218,326 shp / 162,871 Kw = 32.00 kts

Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 7,443 tons

Complement:

1,819 - 2,365

Cost:

£24.137 million / $96.549 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 3,775 tons, 6.7 %

- Guns: 3,775 tons, 6.7 %

Armour: 19,149 tons, 34.2 %

- Belts: 6,119 tons, 10.9 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,456 tons, 2.6 %

- Armament: 3,755 tons, 6.7 %

- Armour Deck: 7,220 tons, 12.9 %

- Conning Towers: 599 tons, 1.1 %

Machinery: 6,051 tons, 10.8 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,048 tons, 35.8 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,734 tons, 12.0 %

Miscellaneous weights: 230 tons, 0.4 %

- On freeboard deck: 180 tons

- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

79,552 lbs / 36,084 Kg = 27.3 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 11.9 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13

Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m

Roll period: 17.0 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck,

a normal bow and a cruiser stern

Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.560 / 0.566

Length to Beam Ratio: 8.33 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 30.00 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m

Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):

Fore end, Aft end

- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m

- Forward deck: 30.10 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m

- Aft deck: 34.90 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m

- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m, 21.00 ft / 6.40 m

- Average freeboard: 23.23 ft / 7.08 m

Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.9 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.9 %

Waterplane Area: 68,474 Square feet or 6,361 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 220 lbs/sq ft or 1,076 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.98

- Longitudinal: 1.19

- Overall: 1.00

Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space

Excellent accommodation and workspace room

100 tons reserved for aircraft

50 tons reserved for radar

80 tons reserved for growth

Belt armor is composed of a 3" decapping plate, backed by a 13" main belt. The upper belt is an extension of the decapping plate

I think 16in will suffice, too few 18in have been used or even fired (in WW as well as OTL) to really study the problems. Its not just a case of upsizing the calibre as the Admiralty found out. It worked going from 13.5 to 15in but not 15in to 18in.

NATO may well need the support of big battleships as part of a core force and thus politically there is a need for ships of this size. If the USN and RN built four or five 50,000 ton 18in armed ships each then NATO would lead the world.

## Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

I agree, the USN needs to go back to organized naming conventions (And naming ships after living people is a no-no regardless....)

Luckily, they won't name a Sub after Clinton, so no poor sailor will have to go down on the Slick Willy....

I do not have anything meaningful to add. But this was just too funny, I did not laugh this hard in some time

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