WesWorld

Seeing all the other large cruisers popping up all over, and having a stockpile of 14" guns being removed from the Big Six and perhaps the Lexingtons, US designers have come up with a new design.


USS Gettysburg, United States Large cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
23,284 t light; 24,468 t standard; 26,571 t normal; 28,254 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
764.92 ft / 750.00 ft x 80.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
233.15 m / 228.60 m x 24.38 m x 9.45 m

Armament:
6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,425.00lbs / 646.37kg shells, 1918 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
32 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,572 lbs / 4,342 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 26.40 ft / 8.05 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 124,208 shp / 92,659 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,786 tons

Complement:
1,039 - 1,352

Cost:
£12.374 million / $49.496 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,157 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 7,983 tons, 30.0 %
- Belts: 2,501 tons, 9.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 488 tons, 1.8 %
- Armament: 1,687 tons, 6.3 %
- Armour Deck: 3,076 tons, 11.6 %
- Conning Tower: 230 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,443 tons, 13.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,412 tons, 39.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,288 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 290 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,887 lbs / 14,917 Kg = 24.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.38 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 20.15 ft / 6.14 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.3 %
Waterplane Area: 41,572 Square feet or 3,862 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 806 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

50 tons reserved for radar
100 tons reserved for aircraft
140 tons reserved for growth

eeeks. very battlecruiser.

This design is a battlecruiser. There is no point calling it a cruiser (unless its a ploy to hide it from Congress).

The seakeeping is low but speed and range is good. I'd add extra armour on the torpedo bulkhead but if the belt is inclined then 10" should be ok for engaing other heavy cruisers.

Quite nearly the historical Renown and Repulse, as I recall their stats.

Stability is 1.05 - this is way low in what I generally shoot for. In the past I have rejected designs due to a 1.08 stability.

Back when I first joined, I did make a design study similar to this vessel, here.

Also...Is it really economical to break down the triple turrets and making new twin turrets?

A revised version, improving stability.

USS Gettysburg, United States Large cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
23,993 t light; 25,192 t standard; 27,321 t normal; 29,025 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
764.92 ft / 750.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
233.15 m / 228.60 m x 25.91 m x 9.14 m

Armament:
6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,425.00lbs / 646.37kg shells, 1918 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
32 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,572 lbs / 4,342 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 485.00 ft / 147.83 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 485.00 ft / 147.83 m 26.40 ft / 8.05 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 126,431 shp / 94,317 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,833 tons

Complement:
1,062 - 1,381

Cost:
£12.556 million / $50.225 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,157 tons, 4.2 %
Armour: 8,352 tons, 30.6 %
- Belts: 2,452 tons, 9.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 711 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,687 tons, 6.2 %
- Armour Deck: 3,269 tons, 12.0 %
- Conning Tower: 235 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,504 tons, 12.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,779 tons, 39.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,329 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,008 lbs / 16,333 Kg = 26.2 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 20.15 ft / 6.14 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.2 %
Waterplane Area: 44,171 Square feet or 4,104 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 816 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.20
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

50 tons reserved for radar
100 tons reserved for aircraft
50 tons reserved for growth

As to how efficient it is to split up the turrets, not particularly. The problem, though, is that a Dunkerque arrangement is not acceptable, and 9 14" guns cost too much in terms of tonnage for the ship. So......

You might be better off with new triple 12" turrets then, and making the 14" turrets availible for a new round of CDS ships, or availible for some export designs to friendly powers (Chile has the Gideon with the same guns already, Mexico's never too choosy, and the Santa Anna has the same guns as the current CDS ships).

Also, I'd think the USN would be looking towards some larger ships to match the 40k+ wagons coming into service and building elsewhere...

I like them a lot. As already said - they are lot like RENOWN, albeit a bit smaller with smaller main guns and more modern machinery.

I´m not sure if the USN need such ships from a strategical point of view but taktically they add a new element to the USN not available before and they answer that global mini-BC-mania quite well.

How many will the USA lay down? Numbers could be important to really make use of them....

You have a drawing?

, presumably.

Something along those lines, though the catapaults might be just aft of amidships (like on the New Orleans class) and the 3rd 5" mounting per side just forward of that.


Assuming any were to be built, there are enough guns left over from the Big Six to build a dozen, plus another 4 if the Lexingtons get rebuilt.


If a 12" version were built, it could look something like this:
USS Gettysburg, United States Large cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
24,143 t light; 25,409 t standard; 27,549 t normal; 29,261 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
764.92 ft / 750.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 30.25 ft (normal load)
233.15 m / 228.60 m x 25.91 m x 9.22 m

Armament:
9 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,070.00lbs / 485.34kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised guns - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
32 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,535 lbs / 4,779 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 485.00 ft / 147.83 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 485.00 ft / 147.83 m 26.40 ft / 8.05 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 127,063 shp / 94,789 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,852 tons

Complement:
1,068 - 1,389

Cost:
£12.337 million / $49.349 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,100 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 8,386 tons, 30.4 %
- Belts: 2,452 tons, 8.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 711 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 1,720 tons, 6.2 %
- Armour Deck: 3,269 tons, 11.9 %
- Conning Tower: 236 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,522 tons, 12.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,935 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,407 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
37,178 lbs / 16,864 Kg = 43.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.57 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 20.15 ft / 6.14 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.3 %
Waterplane Area: 44,171 Square feet or 4,104 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 169 lbs/sq ft or 826 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

50 tons reserved for radar
100 tons reserved for aircraft
50 tons reserved for growth

And a much smaller vessel, if the 12"/14" vessels were too expensive for a USN that's straining to upgrade and finding the decisions of past administrations .... problematic.

USS Boise, United States Heavy Cruiser laid down 1939

Displacement:
15,606 t light; 16,499 t standard; 18,135 t normal; 19,444 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
711.57 ft / 700.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 23.25 ft (normal load)
216.89 m / 213.36 m x 22.86 m x 7.09 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 600.00lbs / 272.16kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1939 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1939 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
48 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1939 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1939 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 6,182 lbs / 2,804 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 455.00 ft / 138.68 m 10.39 ft / 3.17 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 2.75" / 70 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 101,591 shp / 75,787 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,945 tons

Complement:
780 - 1,015

Cost:
£8.644 million / $34.576 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 660 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 4,503 tons, 24.8 %
- Belts: 1,585 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 771 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,057 tons, 11.3 %
- Conning Tower: 89 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,749 tons, 15.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,504 tons, 41.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,529 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 190 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,962 lbs / 11,323 Kg = 49.9 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.520
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (66 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 18.79 ft / 5.73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.0 %
Waterplane Area: 37,067 Square feet or 3,444 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 694 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.10
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

100 tons reserved for aircraft facilities

40 tons reserved for radar

50 tons reserved for growth

A 9x10" CA? Named Boise?

*Scream of happy joy.*

I like the 14'' Gettysburg design.
I am wondering however what role will it play in the fleet?
Cruiser Killer is something I don't think USN needs.

If Boise were to be built, it's task is to be a next-generation CA. The USN figures that with CLs starting to grow to 10,000 tons, the older CAs in it's fleet simply aren't big enough and strong enough to reliably defeat the new CLs. A vessel such as Boise would be capable of doing so.

Gettysburg's role is somewhat different: that ship is intended to overmatch most of the large cruisers that have been started (at least in terms of it's guns versus their armor). It is also intended as a fast carrier escort.

The US could just buys some Villas ... Alot cheaper than Boise for the same specs.

Better armour than the Villas, but definitely in the same vein.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Better armour than the Villas, but definitely in the same vein.

Better armor and heavier projectiles than Villa, actually. But of course there's some resemblance.

Oh, hey, you're right. I didn't notice the shell weights.

...Dang, you eclipsed the shell weights of Constitucion, even.

You have a fairly new batch of New York City class cruisers in almost the exact same weight class as the Boise. If the 10" guns are really that important, you might save some design time by dropping 10" twins in that design. Otherwise, the NYC class has decent smothering potential on just about any opponent out there.