WesWorld

I've been thinking about what I want the Marinha Imperial do Brasil to be. The Netunos are nice ships in my opinion, but are more of a luxury than a necessity to round out the fleet. I'll probably start building them in '44 so that I can at least say that I built, in my own yards, real capital ships before the sim is done. So with that in mind, I've gone back to the MIB being a fleet of raiders, without a proper battle line, and here's what I've come up with.


Strategic Organization
CapRon (2 x Rio de Janeiro CB, 2 x Amazonas CA)
CruRon (4 x Sagitério CL)
CruRon (4 x Almirante Barroso CL)
CruRon (4 x Falcão CE)
DesRon (4 x Margay DD)
DesRon (4 x Margay DD)
DesRon (4 x Margay DD)
DesRon (4 x Furacão DD)
DesRon (4 x Furacão DD)
SupRon (4 x Fleet Oilers)
SupRon (4 x Fleet Cargo Ships)

SubRon (4 x Submarines)
SubRon (4 x Submarines)
SubRon (4 x Submarines)
SubRon (4 x Submarines)
SupRon (4 x Submarine Tenders)

Misc Ships


Tactical Organization
Task Force 1
1 x Rio de Janeiro CB
1 x Sagitério CL
1 x Almirante Barroso CL
1 x Falcão CL
3 x Margay DD
2 x Furacão DD
1 x Fleet Oiler
1 x Fleet Cargo Ship

Task Force 2
1 x Rio de Janeiro CB
1 x Sagitério CL
1 x Almirante Barroso CL
1 x Falcão CL
3 x Margay DD
2 x Furacão DD
1 x Fleet Oiler
1 x Fleet Cargo Ship

Task Force 3
1 x Amazonas CA
1 x Sagitério CL
1 x Almirante Barroso CL
1 x Falcão CL
3 x Margay DD
2 x Furacão DD
1 x Fleet Oiler
1 x Fleet Cargo Ship

Task Force 4
1 x Amazonas CA
1 x Sagitério CL
1 x Almirante Barroso CL
1 x Falcão CL
3 x Margay DD
2 x Furacão DD
1 x Fleet Oiler
1 x Fleet Cargo Ship

Task Force 5
16 x Submarines
4 x Submarine Tenders

Task Force 6
Misc Ships

With all due respect, that is pretty pathetic for Brazil. Except for subs, Mexico can deploy as many ships right now, and Mexico has half the infrastructure Brazil does.

Except that by the time the sim ends every single one of those ships will have been constructed within the last 11 years. Further, a lot of those ships will be heavy for their type. And finally, that's just the core of the fleet, there will be many other types of ships (I'm even thinking of adding a sixth task force for landing the marine brigade.)

As for Mexico being able to deploy that many ships, is your order of battle not up to date? Because right now I only count 20 major fleet ships and 100 ships altogether. My planned order of battle will include 64 major fleet units and however many minor units I think I need.

So by when do you expect the above plan to be completed?

I have eleven Margays (having lost one in the war), the Furacão class is just a re-run of the Margay class with d/p 120mm twin turrets, and most of the light cruisers will be done by '38. I also have plenty of submarines, although truth be told I'm eyeing the new Japanese classes to replace my older units. I expect I'll probably be done around '45 or '46, unless something changes.

I just adjusted the building program to account for the fact that the Falcon class has been cut in half and the entire light cruiser building program will end in Q1 '39. Which reminds me, all my Type 3s will be open in Q3 '38 for a bit, so if you wish you could officially buy the Rios then and I'll put them in docks for reconstruction.

What about

- minelayer
- minesweeper
- floatplane tenders
- carriers
- fishery protection vessels
- Coast Guard
- frigates
- sloops
- MTBs
- MGBs
- fleet tenders
- repair ships
- gunboats
- etc.

to name just a few classes that are necessary for each fleet and which will consume quite some material for building and maintaining....

Agreed, with the exception of tenders all the other types would be very valuable to the Brazilian fleet.

Quoted

- minelayer
- minesweeper

I plan to put out a tender for a mine warfare vessel at some point.

Quoted

- floatplane tenders

Don't really see the need for one, since the few floatplanes I have can be serviced from spares aboard their home ships.

Quoted

- carriers

This is so low on my priorities it isn't even funny. Had I started in '20 I'd probably already have a division of carriers, but right now I'm more worried about having a modern cruiser force.

Quoted

- frigates
- sloops

At the moment my merchant marine isn't large enough to justify the investment of convoy protection vessels. In a major war where I have everything I need, I'd be pumping these out like a candy factory.

Quoted

- fishery protection vessels
- Coast Guard
- MTBs
- MGBs
- gunboats

These all kinda fall into the same category, and I do have plans for patrol boats.

Quoted

- fleet tenders

See Fleet Cargo Ship

Quoted

- repair ships

Probably a good idea, eventually.

I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't just forget the Rios as TF flagships and just round out the CapRon with Amazonas. Maybe construct a Rio as fleet flagship.

EDIT: Er, looking for opinions here.

Give us some context. How're you planning on employing these task forces? What kind of mine warfare, frigate/sloop and patrol assets are you contemplating?

The task forces are mainly to be hunter-killer raiding groups, although I'm fairly confident that if they steamed together they could probably defeat a battle squadron with moderate losses. On the mine warfare side, I'm thinking of a layer/clearer maybe based on the Margay hull, so roughly 2,500t displacement (I'm thinking a four-ship squadron per harbor.) I don't really plan on any frigates or sloops since those are essentially escort ships and as I said my merchant marine isn't large enough at this point to justify the expense. On the patrol side I'm thinking of two squadrons of torpedo boats and gun boats per harbor (four ships per squadron.)

2500t is, IMHO, way too large for a minehunter. I'd build 500t ~ minesweepers, and other ships for minelaying (I'm building destroyers which can lay mines).

Like I said, it would be both a minelayer and minesweeper. And it is built on a destroyer hull.

Still, it would be preaty expensive for a vessel of that size and your already splurging on larger units. I can get a decent multirole design (MS-26) on just under 700 tons.

*Shrugs.* Your choice. I am disinclined to risk a ship of 2kt or more for minesweeping - why spend that much on a single ship, when I can buy five for the same tonnage? Losing two or three of them isn't such a loss, then.

Now, minelayers are a different story. I've toyed around with making a sort of Abdiel-type minelayer, but even then, I can detach destroyers and torpedo boats to do the job.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Still, it would be preaty expensive for a vessel of that size and your already splurging on larger units. I can get a decent multirole design (MS-26) on just under 700 tons.

Really? The MIB might be contacting Atlantian firms, then.

Hmm something to consider in the furure...

The Bulgarians are also working on even smaller ships too if you want a wide range of choices.

What I would suggest is a 3-4,000t light cruiser with 6" guns, long range, and capacity for mines. A relatively cheap raider with a secondary minelaying role. For minesweepers, a bunch of 200t boats with a secondary patrol boat role.

But there are plenty of cheap minesweeper designs all over WW, take a look at some of them. Or even have a contest.

Personally I'd deversify with reguards to minelaying/mine sweeping. Several multi-role and single role vessels along with CL's and DD's built with the capability to lay mines in a pinch.

By far mine sweepers are more usefull so I'd build them in larger numbers than the multi purpose types.