Brazil Q1/35

Fyrwulf

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 6:27am

Edited quarter to reflect use of all but 6 tons of stockpiled steel to upgrade a slip and dock at Macapa.

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thesmilingassassin

The Chosen One

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 6:58am

Quoted

Originally posted by Fyrwulf

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Maybe so but Atlantis wouldn't be too keen on it, Brazil has already shown they are willing to intervene in others conflicts, twice. America dealing with Brazil would in effect be condoning this behavior.

While we're talking secrets, I imagine it will come out after the war that this war was always a joint effort, that Brazil entered when it did was very much calculated to have the maximum effect. The Americans are peripherally aware of this, since the deal was negotiated once it was apparent war was inevitable.

That seems contrary to what Canis and I discussed. That said Hrolfs running American affairs now so...

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Fyrwulf

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 7:02am

*shrugs* Don't know what to say. I don't know if he changed his mind or what, but I do know at one point we had a deal.

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thesmilingassassin

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 7:39am

I'd say you'd have to take that up with Hrolf, Canis has hung his hat due to his health issues. From a player point of veiw I have no issues, from an IC perspective it would certainly effect relations somewhat.

Oh and even though its a joint effort on the part of Brazil to take the SAE down a peg or two, its certainly been no secret that Brazil has quite eagerly ratled the Sabre with the SAE prior to and just before the war, this after injecting themselves in the Bolivia conflict.

With that in mind they are certainly sending the wrong signals to other nations in their region, most notably their rather large neighbour to the North.

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Rooijen10

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 9:34am

Quoted

I believe Japan announced it was doing the same as the Dutch in not selling strategic or war materials to Brazil, so if/when this comes out, Japan will not look good.

Yes Japan did and no Japan will not look bad. What the Japanese have announced and are doing is exactly the same as what the Dutch anounced:

Quoted

Japanese merchant marine was ordered to cease delivery of any strategic goods to Argentina or Brazil.

Unless you changed the post afterward, the Dutch announced the same thing and nothing else (even if you had other things in mind).

The Japanese Merchant Marine is not allowed to deliver any strategic goods to Argentina or Brazil, but that does not mean that Japan does not deliver any strategic goods to Brazil or Argentina. After all, the Imperial Japanese Navy is NOT the Japanese Merchant Marine.

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thesmilingassassin

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 10:36am

All fine and dandy but if theres even a slight chance SATSUMA could convince the SAE to be pro SATSUMA why aide their enemy's, even covertly?

On second thought, go right ahead, send as much stuff to Brazil/Argentina as you want!

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Hrolf Hakonson

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 12:44pm

Enquiries have been made.

Now, wearing my US hat, I don't necessarily see a problem BUILDING a warship or three for the Brazillians, but it would have to be understood that, should the war still be ongoing when that ship is completed, it would have to remain in the US until the conclusion of hostilities. That's a very clear and explicit section of the Hague, 1907 treaty, and the US is not about to sign off on a violation of that treaty under the current regime.

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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 8:18pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

I believe Japan announced it was doing the same as the Dutch in not selling strategic or war materials to Brazil, so if/when this comes out, Japan will not look good.

Yes Japan did and no Japan will not look bad. What the Japanese have announced and are doing is exactly the same as what the Dutch anounced:

Quoted

Japanese merchant marine was ordered to cease delivery of any strategic goods to Argentina or Brazil.

Unless you changed the post afterward, the Dutch announced the same thing and nothing else (even if you had other things in mind).

The Japanese Merchant Marine is not allowed to deliver any strategic goods to Argentina or Brazil, but that does not mean that Japan does not deliver any strategic goods to Brazil or Argentina. After all, the Imperial Japanese Navy is NOT the Japanese Merchant Marine.

As a matter of wording, you are correct.
However, if a bunch of Japanese field guns and planes are offloaded from an IJN vessel and it gets published, the appearance will be that Japan said one thing and did another. What the wording was will be irrelevant.

However, if you are not found out, you score points on both sides

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Rooijen10

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 9:03pm

A typical Dutch trick to twist the truth.

Japan was quite specific in the news about that bit on the Merchant Marine.

Also nothing will stop Brazilian or Argenine merchant ships from picking up goods. Japan has absolutely nothing to do with those ships.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (May 25th 2008, 9:05pm)

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Fyrwulf

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Sunday, May 25th 2008, 9:12pm

That's the beauty of it, Kirk, since I will be producing my army's stuff domestically. If I should feel the need to lay down a Barroso in Japanese yards covertly, who's going to notice? After all, the design is a modified Mogami and there are only superficial differences between the Barroso and Mogami up until the point where the secondaries are installed. Even then, you'd have to get a really close look and really know your stuff to realize the guns and shells are Brazilian.

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thesmilingassassin

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 12:46am

Well its certainly not a surprise to me Japan would pull this kind of stunt. There is no guarantee however that these ships will have a safe transit route durring the war unless they sail to Argentina.

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Fyrwulf

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 12:49am

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Well its certainly not a surprise to me Japan would pull this kind of stunt. There is no guarantee however that these ships will have a safe transit route during the war unless they sail to Argentina.

Which is what they'd do. If the SAE wanted to intercept them, they'd have to violate Chile's carefully maintained neutrality, thus bringing them into the war and completing the trio.

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thesmilingassassin

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 12:51am

Theres always the plausable deniability of mines.

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Fyrwulf

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 1:34am

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Theres always the plausible deniability of mines.

Remember the Maine, yes?

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Desertfox

Ambitious Packrat

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 2:46am

The SAE mining Chilean waters is a surefire way to spread the war.

Japanese stunt? The Aussies are pulling of an even bigger one. Any news on that Hood?

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thesmilingassassin

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 3:14am

Curious, why would the Aussies have a beef with the SAE?

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Kaiser Kirk

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 4:45am

Quoted

A typical Dutch trick to twist the truth. Japan was quite specific in the news about that bit on the Merchant Marine.

Also nothing will stop Brazilian or Argentine merchant ships from picking up goods. Japan has absolutely nothing to do with those ships.

It's not the Dutch being tricky

Yep, Japan was quite specific. For that matter, the way the Dutch framed their announcement means Dutch ships could still be delivering to Ports in Brazil and Argentina, just the deliveries would not include anything resembling war material or strategic resources, and they will fully cooperate with searches by the RSAN to verify that matter.

Quoted

Originally posted by Fyrwulf
That's the beauty of it, Kirk, since I will be producing my army's stuff domestically. If I should feel the need to lay down a Barroso in Japanese yards covertly, who's going to notice? After all, the design is a modified Mogami and there are only superficial differences between the Barroso and Mogami up until the point where the secondaries are installed. Even then, you'd have to get a really close look and really know your stuff to realize the guns and shells are Brazilian.

Given Japanese security- I expect few if you desire it. It's when Brazil suddenly has a new cruiser that folks will wonder where it came from, presuming it makes the Pacific journey and refuels completely unnoticed. Even then, having a near Mogami suddenly show up flying Brazilian colors may cause people to draw conclusions

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Fyrwulf

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 5:09am

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser KirkEven then, having a near Mogami suddenly show up flying Brazilian colors may cause people to draw conclusions

That's true, although it's not exactly a secret that the tender for a new class of light cruisers resulted in a split decision, so to speak. Nor it is really a secret that the Japanese design is the reason for it. Actually, the Saggies and Mogamis (MIB mod) are remarkably similar ships, it's just that the latter uses the proven trips turret whereas the Saggies use the new quad.