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1

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 6:28am

Mexican Army

I'm working on an OOB for the Mexican Army, but since land forces are not my strong point, I'm not sure if it's reasonable or not. Also I'm not sure how many trucks and such the Mexicans would have. Help would be greatly appreciated.


This is what I have so far:

Tanks:
45 AT-27 1M1
150 AT-17
AT-31 1M1 (150 on order)

Self propelled Guns:
5 AAT-27 1M1 105mm
30 AAT-27 2M2 75mm

Trucks:
? Pierce-Arrow C12
? Pierce-Arrow HT-2 "Bison"

Armored Cars:
? NH-28 (operated by police units)

Weapons:
105mm
75mm
47mm
misc mortars
50 cal MG
30 cal MG
Swiss-Mondragon semi-automatic rifle
others


Divisions about equal to 15,000 men.

10 Divisions Infantry (each with 15 AT-17 tanks)
3 Divisions Cavalry
1 Armored Cavalry Regiment*
1 Division Naval Infantry

*Armored Cavalry Regiment split into:
5 - 9 tank (AT-27) Companies
2 - 15 gun (AAT-27 75mm) Batteries
1 - 5 gun (AAT-27 105mm) Battery
3 - 15 gun (horse cavalry 75mm) Batteries
3 - 3,000 man (mounted) Battalions

2

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 7:20am

The Atlantean equipment listed could be built under licence, particularily the trucks. You could also likely recieve large numbers of trucks from the U.S. as well.

3

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 11:37am

Historically, the Mexican army used mostly 7mm x 57 Mauser bolt-actions, with 3 versions of the rifle made in Germany (the 1895, 1902, and 1912 models). A Mexican-made version, the model 1936, was a modified Mauser, which looked externally like a US M1903 Springfield but internally was a Mauser. The Mondragon model of 1908 was a very early military semi-automatic rifle, it proved not to be really up to the rigors of trench warfare but was issued to observers on aircraft before machineguns were mounted.

4

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 1:41pm

In the armored cavalry regiment you already have a cavalry brigade with those so called mounted battalions. The cavalry brigades of the era were around 9000 men so basically you have a reinforced cavalry brigade, not an armored regiment.

In regard to trucks I have to agree that you should have a lot of surplus US trucks. In regard to the rifles Hrolf have the most realistic approach. Mauser copies, the Mondragon is too fragile to be a service rifle.

5

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 2:22pm

Oh, I forgot, there was also a Mexican-developed LMG that began production historically in 1934, the Mendoza model 1934. It looks a bit like a ZB-26 or Bren, but it's more closely related to the Lewis and the Hotchkiss. Quite a decent weapon, according to what I've read. Like the Mexican rifles, historically it was chambered in 7mm x 57 Mauser. For more details, see here: http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3200/3210.htm

6

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 5:48pm

Interesting. Would it be IC to have Mexico field an improved (more reliable) Mondragon together with the Mauser?

BTW Interesting fact, the Mondragon is thought to be the weapon used to assasinate Pancho Villa.

How many trucks would Mexico have? Mexico has a pretty good railroad system, but roads at this time are pretty bad, and Mexico is a large country.

Also the Mexican Army stands at around 200,000 men. Would that be too small? too big? or about right?

7

Tuesday, January 22nd 2008, 6:02pm

Here's some more info on the Mondragon: http://www.cruffler.com/historic-february01.html

I would say it's probably unlikely that the Mondragon was going to be developed into a solid option. Its an interesting weapon, WAY ahead of its time, but probably not going to make a useful infantry weapon.

As far as size goes, that might be a bit small considering the fact that there was just a rebellion in Mexico, but not too far off I'd expect.

Trucks are likely to be limited in number, as you say the railroads are good and the roads bad. The Mexican army might reasonably still use mostly rail transport to move troops any large distance, with horses, mules, and feet moving units in tactical moves.

8

Friday, January 25th 2008, 12:42am

Quoted

I would say it's probably unlikely that the Mondragon was going to be developed into a solid option. Its an interesting weapon, WAY ahead of its time, but probably not going to make a useful infantry weapon.
Considering that the US is introducing the M-1 Garand right now, I would say that now is a good time for Mexico to be developing a reliable replacement for the Mondragon.

Quoted

As far as size goes, that might be a bit small considering the fact that there was just a rebellion in Mexico, but not too far off I'd expect.
I'll add a couple more Mounted Infantry Divisions. Note that the list does not include any paramilitary or police forces, which are quite heavily armed with all the Armored Cars and Tommy guns.

Quoted

In the armored cavalry regiment you already have a cavalry brigade with those so called mounted battalions. The cavalry brigades of the era were around 9000 men so basically you have a reinforced cavalry brigade, not an armored regiment.
So it would be more of a Cavalry Brigade with an attached Armored Regiment?


Some more info:

Trucks:
300 Pierce-Arrow C12
100 Pierce-Arrow HT-2 "Bison"
500 Other Misc

Armored Cars:
200 NH-28 (operated by police units)


Numbers look alright?



Equipment

Heavy Artillery
5"/38 - US, Naval Gun in use for coastal defence
5"/25 - US, Older Naval Gun in use for coastal defence

Field Artillery
105mm - US, Field gun in limited use
105mm - US, Howitzer in limited use
75mm - Atlantean, improved version of famous French 75, mainstay of Mexican Army

Heavy Anti-Aircraft Guns
75mm - Atlantean, fixed installation

Light Anti-Aircraft Guns
47mm - Mexican, twin mount fixed installations
47mm - Mexican, single mount mobile
1" - Atlantean, single mount mobile & fixed
50cal - US, 6 barrel gatling mobile & fixed

Anti-Tank Guns
47mm - Mexican, in limited use

Mortars
81mm - US, only heavy mortar in use

Rifles
7/57 Model 36 Mauser - Mexican, mainstay of Mexican Army
7/57 Mondragon - Mexican, in limited use replacement under development

Sub-Machine Guns
0.45in Thompson - US, in service with Police units (the dreaded Judiciales)

Pistols
(no idea?)

Heavy Machine Guns
1" - Atlantean, same as AA gun
50cal - US, in widespead use also use as AT gun
30cal - US, widespread use

Light Machine Guns
7/57 Mendoza model 1934 - Mexican, mainstay of Mexican Army


Any problems?



Developments:

Airborne Glider Infantry Brigade
Fully Amphibious Tank
semi-Automatic Rifle

9

Friday, January 25th 2008, 3:33am

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox

Quoted

I would say it's probably unlikely that the Mondragon was going to be developed into a solid option. Its an interesting weapon, WAY ahead of its time, but probably not going to make a useful infantry weapon.
Considering that the US is introducing the M-1 Garand right now, I would say that now is a good time for Mexico to be developing a reliable replacement for the Mondragon.


Not a bad idea, though expensive and probably not something that NEEDS to be at the top of Mexico's priority list. After all, semi-auto rifles cost a good deal more, and they increase the rate at which ammunition (which also costs) will be expended.

Quoted


50cal - US, 6 barrel gatling mobile & fixed


Uhm, say what???? The Gatling design is long ago out of service, at this time period they've been gone for at least 30 years....

Quoted


Pistols
(no idea?)

Historically, the Mexican army used the US M1911A1 0.45 in semi-auto.

10

Friday, January 25th 2008, 6:38pm

Quoted

Uhm, say what???? The Gatling design is long ago out of service, at this time period they've been gone for at least 30 years....
So what is the 50cal MG used by US Navy ships in this time period? It looks like a gatling, or is it watercooled?

Quoted

Not a bad idea, though expensive and probably not something that NEEDS to be at the top of Mexico's priority list. After all, semi-auto rifles cost a good deal more, and they increase the rate at which ammunition (which also costs) will be expended.
True, but then Mexico was the first country with a semi-auto, it just wouldn't seem right to not have a semi-auto when everyone else is strating to get them! Also most of the other priorities have already been covered.

11

Friday, January 25th 2008, 6:45pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox

Quoted

Uhm, say what???? The Gatling design is long ago out of service, at this time period they've been gone for at least 30 years....
So what is the 50cal MG used by US Navy ships in this time period? It looks like a gatling, or is it watercooled?


The old trusted .50 cal that you see today on the fileds of Iraq in a somewhat modified form. Close to ninety years of service today and going strong.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "perdedor99" (Jan 25th 2008, 6:46pm)


12

Friday, January 25th 2008, 7:01pm

It's watercooled on the Navy mountings.

13

Friday, January 25th 2008, 7:52pm



I see what you mean about the watercooled 50cal but the true gatling guns have a totally different breech and are far larger. I'm pretty sure the're all air-cooled as well so you'd be able to see the individual barrels.

I'm not sure that the 50-cal would be in widespread use. The 30-cal is better for most things, apart from hard targets where anti-tank rifles come in.

5"/51 is probably better off for coastal defence than the 5"/38 or 5"/25

14

Sunday, January 27th 2008, 2:27am

That's the one. I'm used to seeing the aircooled 50cal so when I saw the watercooled version, I mistook it for a gatling.

Quoted

I'm not sure that the 50-cal would be in widespread use. The 30-cal is better for most things, apart from hard targets where anti-tank rifles come in.
I'll reduce it a bit. However the 50cal was the standard US AT gun of the time period. As such it would also be Mexico's standard AT gun.

Quoted

5"/51 is probably better off for coastal defence than the 5"/38 or 5"/25
True, but Mexico doesn't have any 5/51s in service yet. While plenty of sulprus 25s are available and the 38 is the standard AdM shipborne 5" gun.

15

Sunday, January 27th 2008, 11:30am

But the 5"/51 is from 1910. Definitely in service before the 5"/25 and 5"/38. Both of those would be pretty poor for coastal defence.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Jan 27th 2008, 11:31am)