WesWorld

Our bomber force is a farce and while the Karas bomber could be available in late 1935-early 1936 we need some interim solution. Let the games began.

The Dutch can offer the same T.VII bomber as I just posted in Desertfox's thread

Or the older T.Va bomber which it will replace.

Fokker T.Va
1933 monoplane bomber
Rough field capable
Crew : 5
Powerplant : 2xBristol "Pegasus" 965 hp each
Armament : 6x 13.2mm MG, Radio, 1050kg disposable stores (bombs or torpedo)
Armor : 10mm disk behind cockpit
Range : 810nm (1500km) at 160kts
Rate of climb : 1,182 fps at 118kts
Stall speed : 65kts
Ceiling : 29,000'
Max speed : 235kts (270mph)
Weight (max) : 16,500 lbs
Cost : $58,000
Wing Span: 19.5m Length: 15.9m Wing Area: 62.1m2
Source : www.dutch-aviation.nl + planebuilder

Atlantis can offer the following designs.

Ripon-Bloch B-2 Venerable heavy bomber
Top Speed 194 kts = 223 mph (361 kmh)
Armament two twin 7.7mm MG turrets and 6,000lbs bombload

Spartan SP-34 "Cutlass" fighter/bomber
Top Speed 265 kts = 305 mph
Armament 2x20mm cannon, 3x 13mm HMG, 2x 500lb bombs underwing. 8mm rear armoured bulkhead.

Spartan B-1 Vanquish medium bomber
Top Speed 209 kts = 240 mph (389 kmh)
Armament 2x12.5mm MG fixed forward, 2x7.62MG in dorsal turret and 2,000lb bombload

Spartan Sp-21A Vanquish II Reconnaissance/bomber
Top Speed 228 kts = 262 mph
Two dorsal 7.7mm and two wing root 7.7mm and one nose 7.7mm MG and a bombload of 4,000lbs


Spartan TBN-6 "Seadart", torpedo bomber
Top Speed 163 kts = 187 mph
Armament: 2x0.303 (1 fixed forward, 1 aft, trainable), 2000 lb torpedo/bomb load

Accrisius DBN-1 "Banshee" dive bomber
Top Speed 198 kts = 228 mph
Armament four wing mounted 7.7mm Mg and two fuselage mounted 13mm HMG and one 500lb or 1000lb bomb underfuselage.

What sort of bombers does Poland want? Light, Medium, Heavy? I'm sure that Italy can offer in all categories.

I wonder what kind of sinister plans Poland has in mind. After all, this is a 'Land Equipment' post.
Maybe something like pushing the planes toward the enemy position and cut up anyone stupid enough to attack this groundcrawler with the propellors and once the plane is in position, detonate the bombload inside.

offers a range of light and medium bombers. Heavy bombers are not yet approved for export.

How about this?

The Karas is an interesting aircraft, though the export version (the P.43 version, built for Bulgaria) is better and the P.37 Los is quite a bit better still. If Poland is looking to fill gaps while the production of the P.23 gets under way, Germany really can't help, unless Poland wants to lease or buy some He-45s to train pilots and observers on, by the time Poland could take delivery of any new built aircraft the Karas will be ready. within a few months.

The Argentine firm of Tucan can offer the ground attack aircraft the T-17 for army support.



Aircraft Type or Name:

Tucan T-17

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1934

Description

Conventional Aircraft
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage

A light basic monoplane support bomber. Armament two fixed wing-mounted 7.62mm MG, one dorsal 7.62mm MG and 150kg (330lbs) bombload. Crew protected by 5mm armoured 'bathtub'.



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 5,000 lbs
Weight (empty) 3,327 lbs

Length 28.21 ft
Wingspan 40 ft
Wing Area 256 sq ft
Sweep 1 degrees

Engines 1
RR-9-1
Piston

650 hp



Crew 2


Typical cost $0.011 million in 1934
Total number procured 500


Performance:

Top Speed 180 kts = 207 mph
at 15,000 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 25,500 ft

Range 269 nm = 310 miles
with 920 lbs payload
944 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 1,411 fpm

Cruise 120 kts = 138 mph
at 10,000 ft

Corner Speed 145 KIAS =
168 kts at 10,000 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 23.7 deg/sec
Radius 1,372 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 8 ft

Bypass Ratio 105.3

Engine Weight 790 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22.5 percent

Structural Factor 0.90

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 200 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 6.00 g
Wing Taper 0.1
Wing Thickness at Root 2 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0.4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 0 ft
Diameter 0 ft
Fullness 0

Fuselage Diameter 2 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0.4

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 1

Cleanness 55 percent
Unstreamlined section 2.1 sq ft

User equipment 673 lbs

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
The Karas is an interesting aircraft, though the export version (the P.43 version, built for Bulgaria) is better and the P.37 Los is quite a bit better still. If Poland is looking to fill gaps while the production of the P.23 gets under way, Germany really can't help, unless Poland wants to lease or buy some He-45s to train pilots and observers on, by the time Poland could take delivery of any new built aircraft the Karas will be ready. within a few months.

I agree somewhat. By the time the Karas is available (early 1936) is true they could be build in quantity (IIRC close to 90 per year from 1936 to 39 counting exports) but to fill the gap and to replace the really obsolent Potez and least an interim solution needs to be found and purchasing at least 36 to 60 bombers is a short term solution.

Will not see an increment on the size of the Polish Air Force due to the phasing out of the older aircrafts on a one to one basis.

Hmmmm. An inexpensive fill-in might be to lease or buy some light bombers then. Henschel could probably boost production on the Hs-123 enough to get planes in Poland's hands SOON (starting in November or so), without putting itself behind its commitments to the Luftwaffe.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Hmmmm. An inexpensive fill-in might be to lease or buy some light bombers then. Henschel could probably boost production on the Hs-123 enough to get planes in Poland's hands SOON (starting in November or so), without putting itself behind its commitments to the Luftwaffe.

Starting delivery in November 34? An order of 48 will be more than fine if all aircrafts could be completed by the middle of the next year.

Poland also orders 15 Dutch bombers (to fill an squadron, have spares and one for evaluation) and 3 of the Spartan Sp21 for evaluation.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Hmmmm. An inexpensive fill-in might be to lease or buy some light bombers then. Henschel could probably boost production on the Hs-123 enough to get planes in Poland's hands SOON (starting in November or so), without putting itself behind its commitments to the Luftwaffe.

Starting delivery in November 34? An order of 48 will be more than fine if all aircrafts could be completed by the middle of the next year.

48 Hs-123s can be delivered to Poland by the end of May, 1935.

The United States can offer the following...

Martin B-10 Series

Two Wright R-1820-33 Cyclone air-cooled radial engines, rated at 775 hp for takeoff and 750 hp at 5400 feet.
Maximum speed 213 mph at 10,000 feet, 196 mph at sea level. An altitude of 5000 feet could be attained in 3.4 minutes.
Cruising speed 193 mph.
Landing speed 65 mph.
Service ceiling 14,200 feet.
Normal range 590 miles, maximum range 1240 miles, ferry range 1830 miles.
Weights: 9681 pounds empty, 14,600 pounds gross, 16,400 pounds maximum.
Dimensions: wingspan 70 feet 6 inches, length 44 feet 9 inches, height 15 feet 5 inches, wing area 678 square feet.
One 0.30-inch Browning machine gun in nose turret, one 0.30-inch Browning machine gun in flexible mount in dorsal gunner position, and one 0.30-inch Browning machine gun in a ventral tunnel position mounted in the floor of the fuselage behind the bomb bay. 2260 pounds of bombs could be carried.
Cost: (unable to find data, I would assume since its the oldest its the cheapest and its widely produced both in the US and Philippines.)

Boeing B-17B

Four Wright R-1820-51 Cyclone radial engines rated at 1200 hp for takeoff.
Performance: Maximum speed 292 mph at 25,000 feet.
Service ceiling 24,620 feet.
Maximum range 3101 miles.
Dimensions: Wingspan 103 feet 9 3/8 inches, length 67 feet 10.2 inches, height 15 feet 5 inches, wing area 1420 square feet.
Weights: 27,652 pounds empty, 37,997 pounds gross, 46,178 pounds maximum.
Armed with five 0.30-inch machine guns, with one gun in each of nose, dorsal, ventral, and two waist positions. A maximum of eight 600 pound bombs could be carried in an internal bomb bay.
Cost: $227631 (est. based on 1942 cost of B-17G)

Douglas B-18
Two Wright R-1820-53 air cooled radials, rated at 1000 hp for takeoff and 850 hp at 9600 feet.
Maximum speed 215.5 mph at 10,000 feet.
Cruising speed 167 mph.
Landing speed 69 mph.
Service ceiling 23,900 feet.
Absolute ceiling 25,600 feet.
Initial climb rate 1030 feet per minute. An altitude of 10,000 feet could be attained in 9.9 minutes.
Range was 1150 miles with 2496 pounds of bombs.
Dimensions: wingspan 89 feet 6 inches, length 57 feet 10 inches, height 15 feet 2 inches, wing area 959 square feet. Weights: 16,321 pounds empty, 22,123 pounds gross, 27,673 pounds pounds maximum takeoff.
Normal bombload was 2200 pounds, but a maximum bombload of 4400 pounds could be carried. Armed with three 0.30-inch machine guns in nose, dorsal, and ventral positions.
Cost: $63,977 (est.)

North American B-21
Two Pratt & Whitney R-2180-1 radials, rated at 1200 hp for takeoff.
Performance: Maximum speed 220 mph at 10,000 feet. Cruising speed 190 mph.
Service ceiling 25,000 feet. An altitude of 10,000 feet could be attained in 10 minutes.
Range was 1960 miles with 2200 pounds of bombs, 660 miles with 10,000 pounds of bombs. Maximum range 3100 miles.
Weights: 19,082 pounds empty, 27,253 pounds gross, 40,000 pounds maximum.
Dimensions: Wingspan 95 feet, length 61 feet 9 inches, height 14 feet 9 inches, wing area 1120 square feet.
Armed with a 0.30-inch machine gun mounted in power turrets in the nose and in the rear dorsal positions, plus one 0.30-inch machine gun firing from a ventral hatch and from left and right waist positions.
Cost: $122,600

The B-10 had been in production for several years and is immediately available. The B-17 and B-18 are in early production and may be delayed until 1935. The B-21 has just entered testing and won't be ready till late 1935 at the earliest. We also have the B-16 being built for Brazil as a maritime recon plane, but it would probably be well in excess of Poland's needs.

Mexico can offer a number of different bombers:

The B-3 Condor, a bomber version of the DC-3

The B-7 Coyote light bomber

The A-1 Mapache, a nice counter to the Hs 123

specs for them can be found here:
http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=4677&sid=

While a little belated, a lighter bomber than most of these would be Fokker-America aka Atlantic Aircraft 's FA-10, available in 1935. Designed with lower altitude ground support in mind, it's a hypothetical follow-on to XA-7. Designed as long range light dive bomber with moderate speed. Range is 1400km, and 4.8hr flight time. 10mm armor disk, 2x 7.92mm fore, 2x7.92mm dorsal turret, 1000kg bomb load for radius.

Atlantic XA10

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1935

Description

Carrier or Rough Field
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage

(desc moved up)



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 9,450 lbs
Weight (empty) 5,724 lbs

Length 33 ft
Wingspan 49 ft
Wing Area 380 sq ft
Sweep 3 degrees

Engines 1
Pratt & Whitney 1830-S1B3G
Piston

1,050 hp
at 5,000 ft


Crew 2


Typical cost $0.026 million in 1934
Total number procured 160


Performance:

Top Speed 226 kts = 260 mph
at 5,000 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 23,000 ft

Range 756 nm = 871 miles
with 2,159 lbs payload
2,292 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 1,331 fpm

Cruise 155 kts = 178 mph
at 11,000 ft

Corner Speed 200 KIAS =
214 kts at 5,000 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 28.3 deg/sec
Radius 1,463 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 12 ft

Bypass Ratio 129.3

Engine Weight 1162 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22 percent

Structural Factor 1.00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 265 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 9.00 g
Wing Taper 0.2
Wing Thickness at Root 1.9 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0.4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 16.5 ft
Diameter 3.75 ft
Fullness 0.3

Fuselage Diameter 4.4 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0.3

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 79 percent
Unstreamlined section 2.6 sq ft

User equipment 950 lbs

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
While a little belated, a lighter bomber than most of these would be Fokker-America aka Atlantic Aircraft 's FA-10, available in 1935. Designed with lower altitude ground support in mind, it's a hypothetical follow-on to XA-7. Designed as long range light dive bomber with moderate speed. Range is 1400km, and 4.8hr flight time. 10mm armor disk, 2x 7.92mm fore, 2x7.92mm dorsal turret, 1000kg bomb load for radius.

Atlantic XA10

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1935

Description

Carrier or Rough Field
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage

(desc moved up)



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 9,450 lbs
Weight (empty) 5,724 lbs

Length 33 ft
Wingspan 49 ft
Wing Area 380 sq ft
Sweep 3 degrees

Engines 1
Pratt & Whitney 1830-S1B3G
Piston

1,050 hp
at 5,000 ft


Crew 2


Typical cost $0.026 million in 1934
Total number procured 160


Performance:

Top Speed 226 kts = 260 mph
at 5,000 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 23,000 ft

Range 756 nm = 871 miles
with 2,159 lbs payload
2,292 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 1,331 fpm

Cruise 155 kts = 178 mph
at 11,000 ft

Corner Speed 200 KIAS =
214 kts at 5,000 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 28.3 deg/sec
Radius 1,463 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 12 ft

Bypass Ratio 129.3

Engine Weight 1162 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22 percent

Structural Factor 1.00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 265 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 9.00 g
Wing Taper 0.2
Wing Thickness at Root 1.9 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0.4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 16.5 ft
Diameter 3.75 ft
Fullness 0.3

Fuselage Diameter 4.4 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0.3

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 79 percent
Unstreamlined section 2.6 sq ft

User equipment 950 lbs

Poland could be interested in sixteen for "evaluation" purposes.