WesWorld

A time ago I was asked if I wanted to join the sim. I have given it some thought and think it is more interesting to design after some limits rather than guessing. I have therefore some questions.

Is some one playing Nordmark at the moment?
If no on first guestion go on with the rest

1. How can I adopt my present fleet to your sim?
2. Borders, is it possible to adopt Nordmark to the more histroical Sweden when it was at its peak in 1658? So Nordmark becomes Sweden.
3. Where can I find the threaties, who are my enmies etc so I can invent the history of "Sweden".
4. Infrastructure, how does it work - how many tonnes etc can I work with per year, what and how can I build stuff.
5. Do my offer still stand?

I'm game for that, however I do not know what Hooman has in mind for Nordmark at present, thought its player has not been around to my knowledge in sometime.

I doubt you'll get any of the old Swed central european cities and duchies, and you might have a hard time gaining back Latvia, Estonia, Ingria, Vyborg, and Karelia.
But you might gain nearly all of Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Vinland, Falkland Islands, South George and South Sandwich Islands, the South Orkney Islands, Bouvet Island, and little Peter I Island.

It is something to think about.

OK...

Hooman has Nordmark "in trust" at the moment. We're still trying to work out exactly what happened with the Nordish-Argentine War of 1921...but that should be done soon.

We hope.

You'll need to discuss this with Wes, Hoo and Rocky but to give a quick answer to your questions...


The answer to Question #2 is almost certainly "no", as Nordmark has been worked into the sim pretty solidly as it is.

As for adapting your 'other' fleet...from destroyers on down it might be possible, you'd have to ask Hoo. Capital ships and cruisers, however, have already been set...at least through 1920. (Battlecruisers | Light Cruisers | Coast Defense Ships )

Treaty limits for Nordmark are:
Capital Ships - 9 hulls/280,000 tons
Limit 381mm guns; 40,000 tons displacement

Aircraft Carriers - 70,000 tons
Limit 210mm guns; 22,000 tons displacement

Cruisers (all) - 280,000 tons
*Heavy Cruisers - 84,000 tons
CAs limit 210mm guns; 13,000 tons displacement
CLs limit 153mm guns; 8,000 tons displacement

Coast-Defense Armourclads - 40,000 tons
Limit 305mm guns; 8,000 tons displacement

Destroyers (all) - 112,000 tons
*Destroyer Leaders - 22,400 tons
DLs limit 130mm guns; 2,000 tons displacement
DDs limit 130mm guns; 1,600 tons displacement

Submarines (all) - 56,400 tons
*Fleet Submarines - 22 hulls; 28,200 tons
SS(f) limit 130mm guns; 1,500 tons
SS(c) limit 130mm guns; 450 tons

Treaties...Nordmark has no official alliances, but is quite close to the SAE. Enemies: Argentina and Brazil. Doesn't like Germany too much either...

Infrastructure...Nordmark has 18 factories. Therefore they can build up to 18,000 tons of shipping a quarter. To answer the second part, here's the Complete Infrastructure Rules and the Gentlemens' Rules.

I'll throw my vote in favor of you taking on Nordmark. I think there could be significant bending to accommodate Hooman and the SAE but I don't think this is impossible.

Good Luck,

As the Russian player, I've been especially missing the Nordmark piece.

I'll also note that Nordmark has built ships for other counties in Wesworld.
Chile owns three light cruisers of the "1908-type Falun-class light cruisers/leaders", modified to local specifications, as will as the two Dreadnoughts which seem to be enlarged "Göta Lejon-class battlecruisers"....both of which Chile hopes to reconstruct in the near future.

My only point here would be in the gun types used for "Nordmark" verses "Sweden" are different. And while I wouldn't mind altering the Chilean vessels to fit Swedish specifications, I'd need to alter my building plans and some of my vessels (the 110mm cannon is on most of my new ships now, as is the 150mm and 340mm cannon for the dreadnoughts), But as I said, I've be willing to alter the ships to fit the situation, as with the exception of the Hyatt, none of the Nordmark gun types have been in combat.

You'd have my vote, but only if Hooman agrees to it, he's the man in charge or Nordish affairs at the moment so if he's against it then its dead in the water.

If thats the case I suppose we could talk about an alternate country for you to run, it seems like everyone here is fine with you joining.

Psilander taking Nordmark would be fine. However, we first have to have all things settled down. Which we have, more or less. Some texts need to be revised, though, but it should be possible to post the stuff in the near future. It´s just a matter of time - and that´s a real problem now.

Psilander, you need to consifer a few things here:

- Nordmark has fixed borders that cannot be changed just because of a new player.

- Nordmark has a fixed fleet until 1920 already posted and the rest is more or less set into stone until today - at least regarding capital ships. You have to work on that basis.

- A sudden shift in gun calibers is unreasonable and unrealistic. Hence you may be forced to re-design most of your designs if you want to have them around in WesWorld.

- Politically you´re free but the Nordmarkian Royals and the SAE Royals are closely related. So even without a official treaty other than a trade agreement those two powers have to be considered allies.

- Prepare your start for 1929 but don´t expect to join pre-1930 as I really don´t know when it will be possible to post the stuff in its final version.

- Browse the boards for every little piece of info on Nordmark. That alone will be time consuming. Also do a few dry runs regarding our rules to allow a jump-start once the time has come.

If you agree to the above (and whatever I may have missed right now), Nordmark is yours.

What do you think?

Nordmark is similar to your alternate Swedish fleet. How about simply adding another alternate history.

Your Swedish Fleet is 1 possible result of some change to history.

The current, and future Nordmark Fleet is a result of a slightly different change to history. Sweden expands west into Norway, Iceland, Greenland and Vinland, instead of expanding south and east as in your history.

Possibly add more pages to your excellent website; Nordmarkflottan?

Sounds like an idea, hell you'll have fun drawing all the Wesworld Nordish ships alone.

Ok..

Rewriting a history with an westward expansion, could be interesting.

I made some calculations comparing capitalships of my Swedish navy and of Nordmark.

1st class. 3x Sverige vs 3x Oscar II
63000tons vs 54000ton

2nd Class 2x Nordstiernan vs 3x 3. Göta lejon
42000tons vs 78000ton

3d class Fädernäslandet vs. Dristigheten II
90000ton vs. 105000

195000tons in 10 years vs 237000 in 8 years
)with the predreds Dristigheten and Tapperheten 229000tons)

The navies are pretty equal, thus some minor changes are needed, espcially on the cruiser names (how would name a cruiser Falun or Sollentuna (a suburb to Stockholmin Sweden??? It would like nameing a ship USS in the middle of nowhere.

Rating single classes and discussing names shouldn´t be interesting in first place. I propose you get used to all our rules and Nordmarks history as posted first.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Rating single classes and discussing names shouldn´t be interesting in first place. I propose you get used to all our rules and Nordmarks history as posted first.

I agree. The bassic rule on allowing new players to enter the SIM was always that we should never change the written history of Wesworld. That history is there to remain and so, the new players must adapt to their nation's history ,and not the opposite.

I can understand the interest of Psilander on changing somewhat Nordmark's history and I sympathize with him on his wishes, but some things should be never changed, or otherwise we would be opening a BIG can of worms...

If each time we are to allow a new player to take a nation we have to adapt the SIM to their plans, when it should be them adapting to the SIM, then there would be so many changes than noone would really know what's true and what's not in the "official-changed-every-2-months" history of the world....


just my 0.02$s

Exactly. It is much like "Take it or leave it."....

Like Hoo says, the borders of Nordmark are set in stone, along with the parts of the history already posted. However I don't think that the history of how Nordmark became Nordmark was ever posted, so you probably have some room to play there, provided that noone else's history would need to be altered.

As for ships, the capital ships (including predreads/ACs, all of which were discarded at the start of the Treaty), carriers (none so far), light cruisers and Coast Defense Armourclads are also fixed as of through 1921, along with the gun types they carry. However - with the exception of a few DD names mentioned at the start of the Argentine fracas, and those ships sold to Chile - destroyers, submarines, and other light craft, IIRC, haven't been entered into the WesWorld canon. So you might have some room to work in some pre-'21 'original work' there.

Of course, from 1922 onwards you can design as you please, within Treaty and industrial limits.

Like RA points out, what you could have here is a "branch history" from your original universe that started way back when some Swedish butterfly flapped its wings. Some things can be similar, but others - such as, for instance, the battlecruisers - have diverged wildly from the "original timeline".

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
Of course, from 1922 onwards you can design as you please, within Treaty and industrial limits.

Better be careful with such a statement....

Quoted

Better be careful with such a statement....

He likely means that he and Rocky have done nearly everything Nordmark since 1921 to present....but have not yet posted it.

Which brings up an interesting question...if it hasn't been posted, can it be changed? Just finish the Agentine story arc that was left hanging and leave the rest to psilander?

This sounds like one of those "canon" arguments on some of the sci-fi boards.

This is the key point, most stuff on Nordmark (and now Iberia) haven't been posted so we really don't know much about the official info on these nations.

Other than the war in the Falklands Atlantis has had zero interaction with Nordmark, with no player to interact with and next to no info on the nation.

I always wondered about Nordmark's choice in guns types (and hence, my own). They seemed more French than Scandinavian in size.

So is there any word on the efforts of South African-Indian Command in transfering control of Nordmark to Swedish Imperial Authorities?

(Notation: Chile as seven Nordmark built vessels currently in the fleet, plus 3 H-class Submarines built for Nordmark...instead of Britian, by the neutral United States that were sold to Chile during the war to compensate for the lose of two destroyers Nordmark loaned from Chile, since the Americans couldn't sell to warring parties. The other 3 H-class subs were for Britian. Others of this class went to Britian from Canada. It is doubtful if any built for Nordmark arrived unless built in Vinland or Canada.

2 Dreadnoughts
3 light cruisers
2 destroyers (plus 2 more of this class sunk during the war)
3 submarines (American built...same as British H-class).)

I Started to draw the Nordmarkian Battlecruiser, Oscar II, She was quite trickywith old SS and not much to go for.


Here she is in her raw state, I will put shaodows on when she is ok, espcially the wing turrets are tricky.