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1

Tuesday, March 24th 2020, 9:33pm

New Designs and Refits of the Greek Fleet

Hello


Well the idea is create a new capital ship and modern one. A ship with top edge technologi. Since Greece don´t have a redar and other sistems industry of this level I pretend to adquiere some of this sistems from other nations, so offers are accepted :thumbsup: . The limis weight is 610 tons. If posiblle to fit on the ship the next sistems are the requiaer:
  • surface radars
  • air search radar
  • navigational surface radar
  • fire-control radar
  • height-finding radar
  • HF/DF






Argo Class, Kingdom of Greece Heavy cruiser laid down 1949


Displacement:
12.284 t light; 12.590 t standard; 15.334 t normal; 17.529 t full load


Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
651,21 ft / 639,76 ft x 71,52 ft x 21,33 ft (normal load)
198,49 m / 195,00 m x 21,80 m x 6,50 m


Armament:
10 - 7,48" / 190 mm guns (4 mounts), 209,28lbs / 94,93kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (6 mounts), 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1949 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2.755 lbs / 1.249 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 0


Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6,30" / 160 mm 318,24 ft / 97,00 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length


- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 2,95" / 75 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,39" / 10 mm 0,79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0,98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -


- Armour deck: 2,95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm


Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100.207 shp / 74.754 Kw = 31,20 kts
Range 10.000nm at 20,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.938 tons


Complement:
688 - 895


Cost:
£8,418 million / $33,671 million


Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 397 tons, 2,6 %
Armour: 3.243 tons, 21,1 %
- Belts: 945 tons, 6,2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 516 tons, 3,4 %
- Armour Deck: 1.744 tons, 11,4 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0,2 %
Machinery: 2.423 tons, 15,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.347 tons, 34,9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.050 tons, 19,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 875 tons, 5,7 %


Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22.206 lbs / 10.073 Kg = 106,1 x 7,5 " / 190 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
Roll period: 15,9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04


Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25,29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 4,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Mid (50 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (18,70 ft / 5,70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m (16,08 ft / 4,90 m before break)
- Stern: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Average freeboard: 19,05 ft / 5,81 m
Ship tends to be wet forward


Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166,4 %
Waterplane Area: 31.934 Square feet or 2.967 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 559 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,08
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Misc weight:

  • Combat manegmen system (39 tons)
  • Comoditis (25 tons)
  • Electronic suit (90 tons)
  • electronic fire-control (25 tons)
  • Comunication (50 tons)
  • damage-control gear (20 tons)
  • Icecream machine (5 tons)
  • Diesel electric double generator set (10 tons)

2

Tuesday, March 24th 2020, 10:20pm

France (specifically the firm of SAGEM) has supplied radar to the Greek Navy several times in the last few years; I believe the British have also supplied radar as well. SAGEM would be happy to send along a salesman to explain their most recent offerings. :)

3

Tuesday, March 24th 2020, 11:11pm

The Kingdom of Greece is happy to receive the salesman and want only the best available for this new ship.

4

Tuesday, March 24th 2020, 11:30pm

Two comments do come to mind as I review the design a second time:
- Number of shells for main gun are currently zero...
- Instead of mixing twin and triple guns, I'd instead recommend three triple turrets.

5

Tuesday, March 24th 2020, 11:51pm

Yes the guns are to thread our enemys the true essens of the combat is on the raming. Now I am fixing that mistake.

I was following other nation tendencies but maybe you are right.

6

Tuesday, March 24th 2020, 11:59pm

I was following other nation tendencies but maybe you are right.

My preference always lies in simplification. It's significantly more design work to design a triple turret and a twin turret - unless you happen to have a good reason for it. For instance, the French Redoubtable-class cruisers have a 2x3+2x2 arrangement because the French had some spare turrets about from different projects.

7

Wednesday, March 25th 2020, 3:21am

I see have sense. I will wait to define how much weight are the radars going to use before add any changes but I will keep it in mind.

8

Wednesday, March 25th 2020, 3:40am

I see have sense. I will wait to define how much weight are the radars going to use before add any changes but I will keep it in mind.

The weights for the radar equipment in the French Marsellaise class, with the same equipment that would be offered by SAGEM, are thus:

Quoted

- DRBV-8B surface and air search radars (2 radars, 25 tons)
- DRBV-7 air search radar (1 radar, 10 tons)
- DRBN-1 navigational surface and air search radar (2 radars, 4 tons)
- DRBC-3A fire-control radar (3 radars, 12 tons)
- DRBI-3 height-finding radar (1 radar, 6 tons)
- SAGEM HF/DF (3 tons)
- Diesel electric double generator set (10 tons)
- Combat Management Center: 40 tons

Total: 110 tons

9

Thursday, March 26th 2020, 5:34pm

The Kingdom of Greece is happy to accept this offer. Since we want to gain power on the mediterranean have good relations and the help of a Great Power on the same sea as France iis something that we really apreciate.

10

Friday, March 27th 2020, 1:22am

Final version:

Argo Class, Kingdom of Greece Heavy cruiser laid down 1949

Displacement:
11.827 t light; 12.590 t standard; 15.334 t normal; 17.529 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
651,21 ft / 639,76 ft x 71,52 ft x 21,33 ft (normal load)
198,49 m / 195,00 m x 21,80 m x 6,50 m

Armament:
9 - 7,48" / 190 mm guns (3x3 guns), 209,28lbs / 94,93kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (6 mounts), 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1949 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2.545 lbs / 1.155 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6,10" / 155 mm 321,52 ft / 98,00 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 2,95" / 75 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,39" / 10 mm 0,79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0,98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2,76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100.207 shp / 74.754 Kw = 31,20 kts
Range 10.000nm at 20,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.938 tons

Complement:
688 - 895

Cost:
£8,094 million / $32,377 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 365 tons, 2,4 %
Armour: 2.993 tons, 19,5 %
- Belts: 923 tons, 6,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 405 tons, 2,6 %
- Armour Deck: 1.628 tons, 10,6 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0,2 %
Machinery: 2.423 tons, 15,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.301 tons, 34,6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.506 tons, 22,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 745 tons, 4,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22.379 lbs / 10.151 Kg = 106,9 x 7,5 " / 190 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
Roll period: 15,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25,29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 4,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Mid (50 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (18,70 ft / 5,70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m (16,08 ft / 4,90 m before break)
- Stern: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Average freeboard: 19,05 ft / 5,81 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166,4 %
Waterplane Area: 31.934 Square feet or 2.967 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 554 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,09
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc weight:

Comoditis (35 tons)
Electronic suit (100 tons)
Electronic fire-control (25 tons)
Comunication (50 tons)
Damage-control gear (20 tons)
Automatic gearautomatic gear (390 tons)
Maneuvering system (5 tons)

Electronics:
DRBV-8B surface and air search radars (2 radars, 25 tons)
DRBV-7 air search radar (1 radar, 10 tons)
DRBN-1 navigational surface and air search radar (2 radars, 4 tons)
DRBC-3A fire-control radar (3 radars, 12 tons)
DRBI-3 height-finding radar (1 radar, 6 tons)
SAGEM HF/DF (3 tons)
Diesel electric double generator set (10 tons)
Combat Management Center: 40 tons

Vital points:
Icecream machine (5 tons)
Icecream machine armor (5 tons)

Total: 745 tons

11

Friday, March 27th 2020, 2:09am

The only questionable element that I can see is:

Quoted

16 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (6 mounts), 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1949 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, evenly spread


Sixteen guns split between six gun mounts suggests that some of the guns would be in triple mounts. For AA guns, that is unusual. Should then not all be in twin mounts?

12

Friday, March 27th 2020, 2:37am

Oh, I just realized what happened there. I forgot to change the mounts. Originally there were 12 weapons

Fixed:

Argo Class, Kingdom of Greece Heavy cruiser laid down 1949

Displacement:
11.827 t light; 12.590 t standard; 15.334 t normal; 17.529 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
651,21 ft / 639,76 ft x 71,52 ft x 21,33 ft (normal load)
198,49 m / 195,00 m x 21,80 m x 6,50 m

Armament:
9 - 7,48" / 190 mm guns (3x3 guns), 209,28lbs / 94,93kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (8x2 guns), 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1949 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
24 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2.545 lbs / 1.155 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6,10" / 155 mm 321,52 ft / 98,00 m 10,66 ft / 3,25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 77 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 2,95" / 75 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 0,39" / 10 mm 0,79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0,98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2,76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100.207 shp / 74.754 Kw = 31,20 kts
Range 10.000nm at 20,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.938 tons

Complement:
688 - 895

Cost:
£8,094 million / $32,377 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 365 tons, 2,4 %
Armour: 2.993 tons, 19,5 %
- Belts: 923 tons, 6,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 405 tons, 2,6 %
- Armour Deck: 1.628 tons, 10,6 %
- Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0,2 %
Machinery: 2.423 tons, 15,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.301 tons, 34,6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.506 tons, 22,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 745 tons, 4,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22.422 lbs / 10.170 Kg = 107,1 x 7,5 " / 190 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
Metacentric height 3,8 ft / 1,2 m
Roll period: 15,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25,29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 4,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Mid (50 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (18,70 ft / 5,70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m (16,08 ft / 4,90 m before break)
- Stern: 16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Average freeboard: 19,05 ft / 5,81 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77,1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166,4 %
Waterplane Area: 31.934 Square feet or 2.967 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 554 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,99
- Longitudinal: 1,09
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc weight:

Comoditis (35 tons)
Electronic suit (100 tons)
Electronic fire-control (25 tons)
Comunication (50 tons)
Damage-control gear (20 tons)
Automatic gearautomatic gear (390 tons)
Maneuvering system (5 tons)

Electronics:
DRBV-8B surface and air search radars (2 radars, 25 tons)
DRBV-7 air search radar (1 radar, 10 tons)
DRBN-1 navigational surface and air search radar (2 radars, 4 tons)
DRBC-3A fire-control radar (3 radars, 12 tons)
DRBI-3 height-finding radar (1 radar, 6 tons)
SAGEM HF/DF (3 tons)
Diesel electric double generator set (10 tons)
Combat Management Center: 40 tons

Vital points:
Icecream machine (5 tons)
Icecream machine armor (5 tons)

Total: 745 tons

13

Yesterday, 6:39am

Nemea Class, Kingdom of Greece Destroyer laid down 1949


Displacement:
2.906 t light; 3.046 t standard; 3.350 t normal; 3.592 t full load


Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 38,06 ft x 14,76 ft (normal load)
120,00 m / 120,00 m x 11,60 m x 4,50 m


Armament:
8 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52,72lbs / 23,91kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 432 lbs / 196 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
6 - 23,0" / 584,2 mm above water torpedoes


Armour:
- Gun armour:Face (max)Other gunhouse (avg)Barbette/hoist (max)
Main:1,57" / 40 mm0,04" / 1 mm0,79" / 20 mm
2nd:0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd:0,39" / 10 mm - -


- Conning tower: 1,97" / 50 mm


Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 63.901 shp / 47.670 Kw = 33,50 kts
Range 4.500nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 546 tons


Complement:
219 - 286


Cost:
£2,777 million / $11,108 million


Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 65 tons, 1,9 %
Armour: 25 tons, 0,7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 15 tons, 0,5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 1.483 tons, 44,3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.176 tons, 35,1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 444 tons, 13,2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 157 tons, 4,7 %


Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1.300 lbs / 590 Kg = 24,7 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
Metacentric height 1,3 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 14,1 seconds
Steadiness- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00


Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,530
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,34 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem:21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %):19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Mid (50 %):18,04 ft / 5,50 m (16,40 ft / 5,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %):16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Stern:16,40 ft / 5,00 m
- Average freeboard:17,93 ft / 5,47 m
Ship tends to be wet forward


Ship space, strength and comments:
Space- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 163,9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104,7 %
Waterplane Area: 10.263 Square feet or 953 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 268 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,70
- Longitudinal: 2,88
- Overall: 0,80
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Misc Weight:
- Electronics (45 tons)
- HVAC (12 tons)
- LRASM Modele 1947 2x4 32cm launchers and reloads (15 tons)
- Crew confort (85 tons)


Electronics:
- DRBV-9 surface and air search radar (1 radar, 7.5 tons)
- DRBI-3 sentry radar (1 radar, 7.5 tons)
- DRBN-1 navigational surface and air search radar (1 radar, 2 tons)
- DRBC-4 (DRBC-3B is ascceptable) fire-control radar (2 radars, 8 tons)
- ARBR-1 radar jammer/detector (2 units, 2 tons)
- SAGEM HF/DF (3 tons)

14

Yesterday, 12:37pm

General impressions:

For a destroyer to be built in any numbers, she is large – 2,900 tons each. The question is does she need to be? I believe you can do better.

First – you have designed the Nemea with a straight stem; modern designs would have a bow angle of somewhere around 15 degrees. I would suggest that you consider making that change.

Second – the deck houses for the main battery have thicker armor than they probably need, given a destroyer’s principal role, and I personally have come to the conclusion that for small ships, an armored conning tower is unnecessary. This is an area where you could save some topweight.

Third – the machinery layout is… odd. I note that the Argos class has a normal geared turbine plant. Any particular reason for introducing electric motors into a large fleet destroyer?

Fourth – when setting up the midbreak, I’d suggest making the change a full deck height – two meters – rather than one.

Fifth – IMHO, the stability and seakeeping elements of the design need improvement. A stability of 1.05 is barely enough to keep her from serious trouble were she to take a torpedo. Her seakeeping at 1.00 is marginal.

15

Yesterday, 4:57pm

Quoted

I believe you can do better.


You are right, I am comiting to many mistakes. I should sleep more.


I don't even know why I was so obsesed with her having 120 m to start.
Now should be better.


Nemea Class, Kingdom of Greece Destroyer laid down 1949


Displacement:
1.913 t light; 2.032 t standard; 2.274 t normal; 2.468 t full load


Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
347,77 ft / 344,49 ft x 29,53 ft x 14,76 ft (normal load)
106,00 m / 105,00 m x 9,00 m x 4,50 m


Armament:
8 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52,72lbs / 23,91kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
Main guns limited to end-on fire
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 432 lbs / 196 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
6 - 23,0" / 584,2 mm above water torpedoes


Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,04" / 1 mm 0,39" / 10 mm
2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -


Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 52.983 shp / 39.525 Kw = 33,50 kts
Range 4.500nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 436 tons


Complement:
164 - 214


Cost:
£2,053 million / $8,214 million


Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 65 tons, 2,8 %
Armour: 12 tons, 0,5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0,5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1.055 tons, 46,4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 625 tons, 27,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 361 tons, 15,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 157 tons, 6,9 %


Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
515 lbs / 234 Kg = 9,8 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 12,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,12


Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,530
Length to Beam Ratio: 11,67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (16,40 ft / 5,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Stern: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Average freeboard: 17,11 ft / 5,22 m


Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180,3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70,6 %
Waterplane Area: 6.967 Square feet or 647 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 165 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,45
- Longitudinal: 3,49
- Overall: 0,56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped


Misc weight:
Electronics (45 tons)
HVAC (12 tons)
LRASM Modele 1947 2x4 32cm launchers and reloads (15 tons)
Crew confort (85 tons)


Electronics:
DRBV-9 surface and air search radar (1 radar, 7.5 tons)
DRBI-3 sentry radar (1 radar, 7.5 tons)
DRBN-1 navigational surface and air search radar (1 radar, 2 tons)
DRBC-4 (DRBC-3B is ascceptable) fire-control radar (2 radars, 8 tons)
ARBR-1 radar jammer/detector (2 units, 2 tons)
SAGEM HF/DF (3 tons)

16

Yesterday, 5:26pm

- Cross-sectional: 0,45

Now it drops below the 0.50 minimum hull strength.

17

Yesterday, 5:30pm

Sleep is good. However, I see several items that are, if fact, a violation of our rules. I commend to your reading the Design Rules for Gentlemen

The current sim of the Nemea has a Relative cross-sectional hull strength of 0.45, which is a violation of Point 1 of the above. The cited length-beam ratio is cited as 11.67, which is a violation of Point 2 above.

I suspect that you will need to alter the block coefficient in order to obtain a result to your satisfaction within these limits.

18

Yesterday, 7:00pm

Oh, that happened because I never used the gentleman's rules before, now in the sim I will have to pay more attention to it.
Now it should be:

Displacement:
2.057 t light; 2.179 t standard; 2.431 t normal; 2.632 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
353,35 ft / 350,07 ft x 31,82 ft x 16,08 ft (normal load)
107,70 m / 106,70 m x 9,70 m x 4,90 m

Armament:
8 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52,72lbs / 23,91kg shells, 1949 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
12 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1949 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 432 lbs / 196 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
6 - 23,0" / 584,2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,04" / 1 mm 0,39" / 10 mm
2nd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 53.652 shp / 40.024 Kw = 33,50 kts
Range 4.500nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 453 tons

Complement:
173 - 225

Cost:
£2,153 million / $8,612 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 65 tons, 2,7 %
Armour: 12 tons, 0,5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0,5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1.112 tons, 45,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 711 tons, 29,3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 374 tons, 15,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 157 tons, 6,5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
623 lbs / 283 Kg = 11,8 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 12,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,92
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,15

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,475
Length to Beam Ratio: 11,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (16,40 ft / 5,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Stern: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Average freeboard: 17,11 ft / 5,22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176,3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75,5 %
Waterplane Area: 7.259 Square feet or 674 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 188 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 3,50
- Overall: 0,61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Electronics (45 tons)
HVAC (12 tons)
LRASM Modele 1947 2x4 32cm launchers and reloads (15 tons)
Crew confort (85 tons)

Electronics:
DRBV-9 surface and air search radar (1 radar, 7.5 tons)
DRBI-3 sentry radar (1 radar, 7.5 tons)
DRBN-1 navigational surface and air search radar (1 radar, 2 tons)
DRBC-4 (DRBC-3B is ascceptable) fire-control radar (2 radars, 8 tons)
ARBR-1 radar jammer/detector (2 units, 2 tons)
SAGEM HF/DF (3 tons)

19

Yesterday, 7:18pm

This latest iteration is within the rules insofar as I can see. There are some factors that still could be tweeked.

1 - the stem is still at zero. I think you might benefit from some level of positive angle in the bow.

2- the recoil effect of the guns is nearing the point where they would restrict the firing arcs. Perhaps you could consider only three twin mounts with perhaps a 57mm mount replacing out of the 120mm mounts, fore or aft.

20

Yesterday, 8:47pm

Good points, especially #2 (- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,92). This is an easy stat to overlook as we as springsharp users tend to look at stability, seakeeping and hull strength. My guess is that your length to beam ratio is right at 11:1, which makes it a VERY narrow hull, is the cause. You may have to add more beam and/or cut weight, preferably to bring that length to beam ratio down closer to 10:1.