Fleet support remains the main emphasis of the construction programme as the fleet is already well served with modern warships and only a few refits of older ships are intended to modernise their AA defences and add radar.

The two main fleet support ships are tankers and MTB tenders.

The Project 723 vessel is an MTB tender, designed to support a flotilla away from their home base, hidden in a Patagonian cove. She has enough torpedoes and fuel to keep the MTBs topped up and has workshops for minor repairs. The Pr.723 is based on the Pr.716 river tender but is larger in dimensions for use in rougher waters and has some AA defence too. Two ships will be built.

Project 723, Argentina MTB Tender laid down 1949

Displacement:

578 t light; 596 t standard; 681 t normal; 749 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

206.30 ft / 196.85 ft x 32.81 ft x 8.20 ft (normal load)

62.88 m / 60.00 m x 10.00 m x 2.50 m

Armament:

2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount

on centreline forward

2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1936 Model

Machine guns in deck mounts

on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 3 lbs / 1 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 2,000

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,500 shp / 1,119 Kw = 15.70 kts

Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 154 tons

Complement:

66 - 86

Cost:

£0.196 million / $0.783 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 0 tons, 0.1 %

Armour: 1 tons, 0.1 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 1 tons, 0.1 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 36 tons, 5.3 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 211 tons, 30.9 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 103 tons, 15.1 %

Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 48.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

1,077 lbs / 488 Kg = 696.6 x 1.5 " / 37 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13

Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 12.7 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.67

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck

Block coefficient: 0.450

Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 14.03 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Forecastle (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m (6.56 ft / 2.00 m aft of break)

- Mid (50 %): 6.56 ft / 2.00 m

- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m (6.56 ft / 2.00 m before break)

- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Average freeboard: 9.97 ft / 3.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.7 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.0 %

Waterplane Area: 4,120 Square feet or 383 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 168 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 168 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.92

- Longitudinal: 2.24

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Class Names: El Austral, Atlantis

Misc Weight:

25 tons for crane

150 tons for workshops

150 tons for cargo/ reload torpedoes

5 tons for Philips surface search RDF set

Normal range 2500nm @ 10kts(43 tons), rest (112 tons) is petrol bunkerage for refuelling MTBs

The Project 725 tanker is fairly small but is cheaper and quicker to build than a larger tanker and hopefully won't make such a big target for RSAF bombers and RSAN submarines.

The SS report itself is a rip of my Dutch Antares Class but with some minor revisions.

Project 725, Argentina Tanker laid down 1949

Displacement:

1,985 t light; 2,070 t standard; 3,851 t normal; 5,276 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

319.30 ft / 311.68 ft x 47.57 ft x 15.49 ft (normal load)

97.32 m / 95.00 m x 14.50 m x 4.72 m

Armament:

2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount

on centreline aft

2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1941 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on side, all forward

Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 3,500

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 1 shaft, 1,500 shp / 1,119 Kw = 12.05 kts

Range 50,000nm at 12.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 3,206 tons

Complement:

243 - 317

Cost:

£0.572 million / $2.288 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Armour: 1 tons, 0.0 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 36 tons, 0.9 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 992 tons, 25.8 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,866 tons, 48.5 %

Miscellaneous weights: 955 tons, 24.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

13,626 lbs / 6,181 Kg = 8,816.3 x 1.5 " / 37 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24

Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m

Roll period: 12.8 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck

Block coefficient: 0.587

Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 17.65 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 30 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m

- Forecastle (30 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)

- Mid (50 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Quarterdeck (30 %): 20.67 ft / 6.30 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m before break)

- Stern: 20.67 ft / 6.30 m

- Average freeboard: 18.24 ft / 5.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 31.8 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.6 %

Waterplane Area: 10,457 Square feet or 971 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 373 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 268 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.89

- Longitudinal: 3.00

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Class Names: San Luis, Mercedes

Misc Weight includes 100 tons for at-sea refuelling gear and derricks and 5 tons for a Phillips RDF set

The two main fleet support ships are tankers and MTB tenders.

The Project 723 vessel is an MTB tender, designed to support a flotilla away from their home base, hidden in a Patagonian cove. She has enough torpedoes and fuel to keep the MTBs topped up and has workshops for minor repairs. The Pr.723 is based on the Pr.716 river tender but is larger in dimensions for use in rougher waters and has some AA defence too. Two ships will be built.

Project 723, Argentina MTB Tender laid down 1949

Displacement:

578 t light; 596 t standard; 681 t normal; 749 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

206.30 ft / 196.85 ft x 32.81 ft x 8.20 ft (normal load)

62.88 m / 60.00 m x 10.00 m x 2.50 m

Armament:

2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount

on centreline forward

2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1936 Model

Machine guns in deck mounts

on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 3 lbs / 1 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 2,000

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,500 shp / 1,119 Kw = 15.70 kts

Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 154 tons

Complement:

66 - 86

Cost:

£0.196 million / $0.783 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 0 tons, 0.1 %

Armour: 1 tons, 0.1 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 1 tons, 0.1 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 36 tons, 5.3 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 211 tons, 30.9 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 103 tons, 15.1 %

Miscellaneous weights: 330 tons, 48.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

1,077 lbs / 488 Kg = 696.6 x 1.5 " / 37 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13

Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m

Roll period: 12.7 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.67

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck

Block coefficient: 0.450

Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 14.03 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m

- Forecastle (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m (6.56 ft / 2.00 m aft of break)

- Mid (50 %): 6.56 ft / 2.00 m

- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m (6.56 ft / 2.00 m before break)

- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m

- Average freeboard: 9.97 ft / 3.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.7 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.0 %

Waterplane Area: 4,120 Square feet or 383 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 168 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 168 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.92

- Longitudinal: 2.24

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Class Names: El Austral, Atlantis

Misc Weight:

25 tons for crane

150 tons for workshops

150 tons for cargo/ reload torpedoes

5 tons for Philips surface search RDF set

Normal range 2500nm @ 10kts(43 tons), rest (112 tons) is petrol bunkerage for refuelling MTBs

The Project 725 tanker is fairly small but is cheaper and quicker to build than a larger tanker and hopefully won't make such a big target for RSAF bombers and RSAN submarines.

The SS report itself is a rip of my Dutch Antares Class but with some minor revisions.

Project 725, Argentina Tanker laid down 1949

Displacement:

1,985 t light; 2,070 t standard; 3,851 t normal; 5,276 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

319.30 ft / 311.68 ft x 47.57 ft x 15.49 ft (normal load)

97.32 m / 95.00 m x 14.50 m x 4.72 m

Armament:

2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1944 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount

on centreline aft

2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1941 Model

Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts

on side, all forward

Weight of broadside 4 lbs / 2 kg

Shells per gun, main battery: 3,500

Armour:

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)

Main: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors,

Geared drive, 1 shaft, 1,500 shp / 1,119 Kw = 12.05 kts

Range 50,000nm at 12.00 kts

Bunker at max displacement = 3,206 tons

Complement:

243 - 317

Cost:

£0.572 million / $2.288 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Armour: 1 tons, 0.0 %

- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Armament: 1 tons, 0.0 %

- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %

- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Machinery: 36 tons, 0.9 %

Hull, fittings & equipment: 992 tons, 25.8 %

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,866 tons, 48.5 %

Miscellaneous weights: 955 tons, 24.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):

13,626 lbs / 6,181 Kg = 8,816.3 x 1.5 " / 37 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24

Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m

Roll period: 12.8 seconds

Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %

- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00

Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck

Block coefficient: 0.587

Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1

'Natural speed' for length: 17.65 kts

Power going to wave formation at top speed: 30 %

Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees

Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):

- Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m

- Forecastle (30 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)

- Mid (50 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

- Quarterdeck (30 %): 20.67 ft / 6.30 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m before break)

- Stern: 20.67 ft / 6.30 m

- Average freeboard: 18.24 ft / 5.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 31.8 %

- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.6 %

Waterplane Area: 10,457 Square feet or 971 Square metres

Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 373 %

Structure weight / hull surface area: 55 lbs/sq ft or 268 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):

- Cross-sectional: 0.89

- Longitudinal: 3.00

- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent

Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Class Names: San Luis, Mercedes

Misc Weight includes 100 tons for at-sea refuelling gear and derricks and 5 tons for a Phillips RDF set

Date: 1949

Coastal

Armament:

- Guns: 1x 20mm M1941

- Torpedoes: 4x 21in torpedo tubes (all fore)

- Mines: 8 (simming 4x reload torpedoes)

Electric HP: 3,000hp

Diesel HP: 1,500hp

Crew: 45

Weight fuel & batts: 315 tons

Light Displacement: 914 tons

Loaded Displacement/Kerb Weight: 987 tons

Full Displacement: 1,092 tons

Reserve buoyancy: 10%

Max Surf Speed: 13.0 knots

Max Sub Speed: 15.8 knots

Length: 65.0 m

Beam: 6.0 m

Draft: 5.6 m

Crush depth: 225 m

Tons Oil: 65 tons

Tons Battery: 250 tons

Cruise speed: 12 knots

Submerged speed: 6 knots

Surface Range: 3,291nm@12 knots

Submerged Range: 290nm@6 knots

Notes: 75 tons miscellaneous weight for radar, ASDIC, hydrophones, air conditioning equipment

## Quoted

Next year Argentina will also begin a more ambitious programme, a home-grown submarine. Heavily based on the two German classes acquired in the late 1930s and early 40s the Project 724 is a training submarine to replace the current two ex-German subs. Probably only one will be built.

Nothing wrong with the sim itself, but looking at that bit of text, would it not be better for the Argentinians to look at the submarines that Japan is building for them and base the submarine on a smaller version of those? The names of the submarines that Japan is building and the Project 724 replacing the two ex-German subs would suggest that Argentina is getting rid of those 8 older submarines. Therefore it would make more sense to make it into a miniature version of the Japanese-built S-class so the crews would be better prepared when being transferred to the new S-class submarines rather than preparing them for old submarines which may or may not be in service for much longer.

Now I am not saying that you should alter the sim in anyway because based on the draught:beam and length:beam ratios and the various features of your sim, the Project 724 is already pretty much a shrunken down, short-ranged version of the new S-class rather than being heavily based on the old German designs...

(class => draught:beam, length:beam ratios)

Old S-class => 0.6:1, 9.20:1

Ex-German => 0.6:1, 8.33:1

New S-class => 1.11:1, 10.82:1

Project 724 => 0.93:1, 10.83:1

... and when it comes to features, it only has the 20mm gun on it like the new S-class and unlike the two German types which have bigger caliber guns and while the miscellaneous weight values you use for various equipment may be different than what I use, I would have 50 tons for the radar (20 tons), ASDIC (20 tons) and hydrophones (10 tons) and the air conditioning equipment at 1 ton per 100 ton light so 10 tons for the Project 724. That would leave you with 15 tons which could be used on a Snorkel (10 tons) and desalinization gear (5 tons), both of which are equipment on the new S-class and thus make it more like the new S-class.

Based on all that, it would probably be more correct to say "Heavily based on the new S-class and shrunk down to the size of the old S-class".

I can't remember now if Argentina purchased the P Class plans back in the 30s but certainly the Navy had planned to build local-built examples with more range with a longer hull. They have taken the Ps to war and have had wide experience with them and know them inside out. The smaller two training subs have been used for eight years. So that is where the experience is. The new Japanese S Class is still somewhat new and although I guess some access to the plans were given and the construction was monitored so that modern design experience will rub off as well. It's probably fair to say the new class will be a hybrid of both.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the draught-beam ratio, I think most the SS simmed subs were too short in the hull to properly sim subs so the new subsim design has a more circular hull than the flatter hulls we used in SS. Again, modern hydrodynamics will play a part in the design.

## Quoted

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the draught-beam ratio, I think most the SS simmed subs were too short in the hull to properly sim subs so the new subsim design has a more circular hull than the flatter hulls we used in SS.

One more point why the Project 724 submarine is more like the New S-class. Both these submarines are simmed right while the other two are simmed wrong.

## Quoted

Hey, that's been a long time ago.

Guess a few old goats in the Argentinian Navy forgot about that. Maybe they are looking for an excuse to stir up some more trouble.

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