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41

Friday, November 7th 2014, 8:17pm

Glad I was able to clear things up.

Since we are on the topic of carriers, I have the Portaerei 1940 ready to present. In case there are any questions, I am going with historic guns plus some historical developments that were not finished because of the outbreak of war. And yes, I am aware that RA had a 65mm test gun go all Sergeant York all over some political types.

Quoted

Portaerei 1940, Italian Aircraft Carrier laid down 1940

Displacement:
29,150 t light; 29,995 t standard; 34,500 t normal; 38,104 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
856.31 ft / 820.21 ft x 98.43 ft x 29.53 ft (normal load)
261.00 m / 250.00 m x 30.00 m x 9.00 m

Armament:
8 - 5.31" / 135 mm guns (4x2 guns), 72.75lbs / 33.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.82lbs / 4.00kg shells, 1939 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.82lbs / 0.83kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
48 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1933 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 808 lbs / 366 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 533.14 ft / 162.50 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 287.04 ft / 87.49 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.76" / 70 mm 533.14 ft / 162.50 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.33" / 110 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,000 shp / 104,440 Kw = 31.81 kts
Range 6,000nm at 25.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,110 tons

Complement:
1,265 - 1,645

Cost:
£9.774 million / $39.097 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 101 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 7,545 tons, 21.9 %
- Belts: 1,121 tons, 3.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,784 tons, 5.2 %
- Armament: 68 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 4,509 tons, 13.1 %
- Conning Tower: 63 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,743 tons, 10.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,661 tons, 28.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,350 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 8,100 tons, 23.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
53,019 lbs / 24,049 Kg = 706.3 x 5.3 " / 135 mm shells or 9.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.43

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.507
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.31 ft / 1.62 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 53.31 ft / 16.25 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 54.95 ft / 16.75 m (17.22 ft / 5.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Stern: 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Average freeboard: 24.64 ft / 7.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.0 %
Waterplane Area: 56,279 Square feet or 5,229 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 144 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 591 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

2.75m Internal deck hight plus .5m Void

Hanger hight is 11m

Misc Wieght breakdown
--5184t for 72 Aircraft.
--1350t for 30mm flightdeck armor
--600t for crated spares, parts, and workshops
--200t Aircraft Operations Center
--250t Flag Facilities
--130t RADAR
----2xRSC.2 Suface Warning (15t each)
----2xRAC.3 Air Warning (10t each)
----2xRAC.4 Air Warning (15t each)
----2xRCF.4 Light Gunnery Directors (10t each)
----6xRCF.6 Anti-Aircraft Directors (5t each)
--150t Inert gas shielding for AVGAS lines and tanks
--50t Two deck-edge elevators.
--50t Two hydraulic catapults on bow-end of flight deck
--50t Crew Comfort considerations
--40t Seaplane serviving equipement
--21t Reserve
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

42

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 5:30pm

Quoted

Corazzata 1938, Italian Battleship laid down 1938

Displacement:
40,000 t light; 42,113 t standard; 45,932 t normal; 48,987 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
807.08 ft / 787.40 ft x 104.99 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
246.00 m / 240.00 m x 32.00 m x 10.00 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,951.09lbs / 885.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x3 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.82lbs / 0.83kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1938 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19,204 lbs / 8,711 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.36" / 60 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 27.07 ft / 8.25 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 8.66" / 220 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 5.31" / 135 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160,000 shp / 119,360 Kw = 31.05 kts
Range 4,000nm at 25.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,874 tons

Complement:
1,568 - 2,039

Cost:
£21.284 million / $85.136 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,099 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 15,489 tons, 33.7 %
- Belts: 5,412 tons, 11.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,211 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 3,321 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 5,469 tons, 11.9 %
- Conning Tower: 76 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,381 tons, 9.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,756 tons, 38.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,932 tons, 12.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 275 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
71,728 lbs / 32,535 Kg = 42.5 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.593
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.58 ft / 1.09 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.58 ft / 4.75 m (24.61 ft / 7.50 m before break)
- Stern: 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Average freeboard: 23.52 ft / 7.17 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 187.1 %
Waterplane Area: 62,578 Square feet or 5,814 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1,009 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.37
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

2.75m internal deck hight plus .5m Void

Waterline at 2m on 4th deck

Main Belt consists of 280mm main plate in 60mm decaping plate.
Main Belt covers 4th and 5th deck.
Main Belt inclined at 11 degrees. True Hight 5.5m
TDS Extends from bottom of hull to 4th deck

--120t RADAR
----2xRSC.1 Surface Warning (10t each)
----2xRAC.2 Air Warning (10t each)
----4xRCF.2 General Gunnery Directors (15t each)
----4xRCF.3 Anti-Aircraft Director (5t each)
--100t Flag facilities
--35t Crew Comfort considerations


Quoted

Corazzata 1942, Italian Battleship laid down 1942

Displacement:
40,100 t light; 42,233 t standard; 45,923 t normal; 48,875 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
807.08 ft / 787.40 ft x 104.99 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
246.00 m / 240.00 m x 32.00 m x 10.00 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,951.09lbs / 885.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x3 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side ends, evenly spread
24 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19,460 lbs / 8,827 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.56" / 65 mm 511.81 ft / 156.00 m 27.07 ft / 8.25 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 8.66" / 220 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 5.31" / 135 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160,000 shp / 119,360 Kw = 31.05 kts
Range 4,000nm at 25.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,643 tons

Complement:
1,568 - 2,039

Cost:
£24.051 million / $96.206 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,132 tons, 4.6 %
Armour: 15,611 tons, 34.0 %
- Belts: 5,412 tons, 11.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,312 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 3,343 tons, 7.3 %
- Armour Deck: 5,469 tons, 11.9 %
- Conning Tower: 76 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,180 tons, 9.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,877 tons, 38.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,823 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
72,656 lbs / 32,956 Kg = 43.1 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 11.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.593
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.58 ft / 1.09 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.58 ft / 4.75 m (24.61 ft / 7.50 m before break)
- Stern: 15.58 ft / 4.75 m
- Average freeboard: 23.52 ft / 7.17 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 187.0 %
Waterplane Area: 62,571 Square feet or 5,813 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,016 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

2.75m internal deck hight plus .5m Void

Waterline at 2m on 4th deck

Main Belt consists of 280mm main plate in 60mm decaping plate.
Main Belt covers 4th and 5th deck.
Main Belt inclined at 11 degrees. True Hight 5.5m
TDS Extends from bottom of hull to 4th deck

--150t RADAR
----2xRSC.2 Surface Warning (15t each)
----2xRAC.3 Air Warning (10t each)
----2xRAC.4 Air Warning (15t each)
----2xRCF.5 General Gunnery Directors (15t each)
----2xRCF.4 Light Gunnery Directors (10t each)
----4xRCF.3 Anti-Aircraft Director (5t each)
--125t Flag facilities
--25t Crew Comfort considerations
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

43

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 6:26pm

Dual-purpose 15cm triple turrets?

44

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 6:58pm

Mayhaps not my brightest thought. I did do a quad DP mount on a cruiser however.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

45

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 7:17pm

Well, looking at the original designs, Italy has been using DP 152mm guns since the early/mid 1930s but it is odd to arm the BBs with triples when the 'original' ones had twins. Also kinda surprises me that snip did not put DP 152mm guns in the sim of the Portaerei 1936...

46

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 7:25pm

I pushed them back a little bit to better match the historical 15.5cm/60 3rd Year Type and historical Italian weapons.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

47

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 7:59pm

Hmm... never paid attention to that bit written about Japan's 15.5cm guns... so I guess I simmed all my 15cm armed ships since the 1930 wrong as they should be DP and not QF...

48

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 8:06pm

it is odd to arm the BBs with triples when the 'original' ones had twins.


The originals also had nothing between the 152mm guns and 47mm guns for AA armament. Something had to give to provide room for the 90mm weapons.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

49

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 9:05pm

A nice set of the designs for the carriers and battleships.

Twin 152mm DPs might be the best move though to avoid complexities.

50

Tuesday, November 11th 2014, 9:34pm

Agreed, but if the historic Littorio class is anything to go by, I cant get good room for the 90mm AA guns without compacting the 152mm battery into trips. Considering Dp trips of this size was done on the 15.5cm/60 3rd Year Type in OTL, I don't see it being technically impossible.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

51

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 7:07pm

First kick at a Cruiser.

Quoted

Incrociatori 1932, Italian Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
7,650 t light; 7,969 t standard; 9,495 t normal; 10,716 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
606.95 ft / 590.55 ft x 60.70 ft x 20.51 ft (normal load)
185.00 m / 180.00 m x 18.50 m x 6.25 m

Armament:
8 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (8x2 guns), 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1.82lbs / 0.83kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1928 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,400 lbs / 635 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 383.86 ft / 117.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.31" / 135 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 62,000 shp / 46,252 Kw = 31.06 kts
Range 4,000nm at 25.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,747 tons

Complement:
480 - 625

Cost:
£3.034 million / $12.136 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 171 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 1,464 tons, 15.4 %
- Belts: 433 tons, 4.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 311 tons, 3.3 %
- Armour Deck: 693 tons, 7.3 %
- Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,830 tons, 19.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,860 tons, 40.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,845 tons, 19.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 325 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,189 lbs / 6,889 Kg = 141.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.36

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.452
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.73 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.25 ft / 0.38 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (40 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m (17.22 ft / 5.25 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Stern: 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Average freeboard: 20.83 ft / 6.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.7 %
Waterplane Area: 23,793 Square feet or 2,210 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 491 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

200t Seaplane handling facilities and storrage
75t Flag Facilities
50t Crew Comfort considerations
25t Reserve
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

52

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 7:36pm

Several comments. It's 750 tons heavier than the 1932 San Calepodio class, and significantly better armed, particularly in regards to the secondary and tertiary battery. The torpedoes are also larger than the originals. Can RA's original design not be replicated?

53

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 8:37pm

I can try and trim some displacement, its not like the design actually needs the 325t Misc weight it has. The difference comes from this being an updated Sant' Achilleo rather then the new design that San Calepodio represented. The armament mirrors that of the Sant' Achilleo, as I have stated before I feel that the given AA armament of just 47mm guns is highly out of period and given that other Italian ships of the same era have AA fits more closely resembling that of OTL ships I do not feel it is out of place to update them. Torps are, well odd. The designs surrounding the San Calepodio all have 600mm torps, and so do most other ships of the era baring subs and four random destroyers. I found it odd and figured that sticking with the 600mm torps would not cause to much fuss.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

54

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 9:06pm

Several comments. It's 750 tons heavier than the 1932 San Calepodio class, and significantly better armed, particularly in regards to the secondary and tertiary battery. The torpedoes are also larger than the originals. Can RA's original design not be replicated?


I think I am with Brock here. Is there anything so outré in the original San Calepodio class that would really necessitate a new design? For the early 1930s arming a ship with such a powerful AA battery would be rather unusual and would, one could argue, save on a future refit to keep up with the Joneses. I think the new design carries with it far too much hindsight.

55

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 9:07pm

That's fairly logical reasoning being an updated Sant' Achilleo, though it does heavily share the armour layout of the San Calepodio and is closer to it in displacement etc.
I'm thinking 12x100mm would probably suffice though, so that could aid towards trimming some weight.
I wonder if a San Calepodio with 8x100mm or 12x100mm would make an interesting comparison?

56

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 9:14pm

I can try and trim some displacement, its not like the design actually needs the 325t Misc weight it has. The difference comes from this being an updated Sant' Achilleo rather then the new design that San Calepodio represented. The armament mirrors that of the Sant' Achilleo, as I have stated before I feel that the given AA armament of just 47mm guns is highly out of period and given that other Italian ships of the same era have AA fits more closely resembling that of OTL ships I do not feel it is out of place to update them.

I think I understand what you did, now. Still, it seems a bit too... eh...

Hood's suggestion of 8x100mm might bear some looking into. I'm just a bit concerned that the ships are making a jump in size and capability, when the goal of this exercise is instead to fit everything into a particular budget. Perhaps it's just me, but it feels a bit counterintuitive.

Torps are, well odd. The designs surrounding the San Calepodio all have 600mm torps, and so do most other ships of the era baring subs and four random destroyers. I found it odd and figured that sticking with the 600mm torps would not cause to much fuss.

Ah, okay. I didn't take note of that when I was doing my comparisons. That's fine, then.

57

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 10:31pm

Is this better?

Quoted

Incrociatori 1932, Italian Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
7,100 t light; 7,415 t standard; 8,877 t normal; 10,047 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
590.55 ft / 574.15 ft x 60.70 ft x 20.51 ft (normal load)
180.00 m / 175.00 m x 18.50 m x 6.25 m

Armament:
8 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1.82lbs / 0.83kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1928 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,154 lbs / 523 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
12 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 373.20 ft / 113.75 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.31" / 135 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 31.13 kts
Range 4,000nm at 25.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,632 tons

Complement:
456 - 594

Cost:
£2.792 million / $11.170 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 140 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 1,403 tons, 15.8 %
- Belts: 422 tons, 4.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 291 tons, 3.3 %
- Armour Deck: 664 tons, 7.5 %
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,771 tons, 19.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,636 tons, 41.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,777 tons, 20.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,788 lbs / 6,708 Kg = 138.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.435
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.25 ft / 0.38 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (40 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m (17.22 ft / 5.25 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Stern: 17.22 ft / 5.25 m
- Average freeboard: 20.83 ft / 6.35 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.3 %
Waterplane Area: 22,807 Square feet or 2,119 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 143 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 481 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.69
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

100t Seaplane handling facilities and storrage
25t Flag facilities
10t Sonar
5t Crew Comfort considerations
10t Reserve
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

58

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 10:46pm

I think your latest revision is far more appropriate for the period, but...

Why put sonar on a 7,000 ton light cruiser? Besides being somewhat anachronistic, the ship has no significant AS armament, and certainly wouldn't be performing AS missions...

59

Thursday, November 13th 2014, 10:54pm

I think your latest revision is far more appropriate for the period, but...

Why put sonar on a 7,000 ton light cruiser? Besides being somewhat anachronistic, the ship has no significant AS armament, and certainly wouldn't be performing AS missions...


An artifact of RA. I ended up removing them in mid 40's rebuilds. Since the 10 tons does not make or break the design, I felt that it should remain included for continuity.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

60

Friday, November 14th 2014, 12:36am

Quoted

An artifact of RA.

From what I can see, the only cruisers he had simmed with sonar are the San Calepodio class, the Ischia class, and the Rimini/Bari class.

Bari and Rimini, and in a way the Ischia too, are more like oversized destroyers. So that would leave the San Calepodio as being the odd one, but looking at the picture, it makes me wonder if RA had the idea of using that autogyro/helicopter contraption thingie in the ASW role with the sonar being used to locate the submarines...