WesWorld

July:
Additional arrests are made of key members of the gun-smuggling and other groups explicitly tied to the attempt to insight rebellion in Benghazi. The arrests are mostly low key affairs aside from one incident in Benghazi when the leader of the local group does not go quietly. A local policeman is killed during the struggle. Prosecutors for the Italian government thoroughly question a now imprisoned Alessadri Doge, who has been expelled from the Italian Senate, thanks to his total cooperation in exchange for a lighter sentencing. A Senate investigation is started into the links between Alessadri Doge and Floriano Terzo Ermacora, it eventually spreads to other Senators and groups.

August:
Floriano Terzo Ermacora's first hearing results in a denial of bail due to the severity of the charges. A full trial date is set for December of 1944. The Senate investigation concludes and the full report is published at the end of the month


September:
The public copies of the Senate report do little to calm public perception that the corruption is more widespread then they believe. Several names stand out, both as sellouts to organised crime and as white knights who are pure and infailible. throughout the month calls grow for the latter to assume greater control and that the former are to be cast off.

August 7th

With the sights centered on the old truck, Marcello Rolando's finger tensed on the trigger. Exhale, and pull. With a whoosh, the rocket shot out of the tube and cut a sharp line though the air between him and the truck. The tail of smoke stayed pointed at the tank for most of its journey, but within 50m of the truck it began to wobble before it curved sharply off to the left and thudded harmlessly into the dirt. Frustrated, he set down the launcher. "Well we are getting closer to the 350m mark." he said to the other man in the test pit. "It just does not want to stay in a strait line."

"Also," his colleague remarked "I can for sure say that it would take someone far braver then me to get within 100m of a tank. The farther away I can use this the better."

Marcello thought to himself for a second "What if there was a way to guide the rocket after launch? Would make hitting moving tanks much easier."

The other man laughed "And how would you do that? Some kind of psychic force?"

"Well the rocket already has fins." Marcello glared at the other man. "What about moving the fins, like with a wire that the operator could adjust?"

A look of epiphany dawned on the other man's face. "Now that makes sense. See Marcello, this is why you will end up as a filthy rich man. Just remember me when you are bathing in gold."

Edit for OOC note: This is a precurser to setting up a MCLOS system for a SS.10-like weapon at the historical or WW-appropriate date.

You can do this in the mid 1950s, if you like. It shouldn't be done now.

The second objection is that MCLOS really, really doesn't work on something this small. You'd be looking at a much larger weapon system in order to accommodate wire-guided controls, making it something that is perhaps vehicle portable, like the SS.10 or TOW, but not hand-carried except in pieces.

So someone cannot think of the concept in 1945 so the idea is there and developed in the mid 50's when such a system would be introduced on a weapon? Yes, Im aiming at a SS.10 like system.

Just because a couple guys on the firing line think it sounds like a good idea doesn't mean they can convince anyone of importance that it IS a good idea, either. May take them 2yrs to get anything even close to workable to the point that the PTB actually agree to pursue it with any determination, then another 2yrs to get a working prototype, then a 1yr of testing and poof it's 1950 before they start actual production, and 1955 before they're actually in line service in any useful quantity.

October 1st, Passignano sul Trasimeno

Gaetano Crocco and Antonio Ferri almost bumped into each other as the door to the SAI Ambrosini[1] headquarters was opened by the doorman.

"My apologies." Antonio said. "My mind was elsewhere."

"I know the sort well." Gaetano replied. "Gaetano." He extended his hand.

Antonio returned the offered handshake firmly. "Antonio. I think we might be here for the same reason."

"Tho it seems they chose to keep that a mystery." Gaetano replied. "Whatever they did, it did not sit well with my previous employer[2]. I am forced to assume there was a large exchange of money or lawers."

Before Antonio could muster a reply, a man in a sharp suit, his posture oozing with a distain for those lower then his social status. "Ah, you must be the two men I was requested to retrieve." The tone of the comment was just short of acidic. "If you will come with me." He turned and began moving to the staircase. Gaetano and Antonio followed. After winding though hallways, the arrived at a set of double doors. There escort opened one and motioned for them to go inside.

A man sat behind the large desk near the windows, ideally fiddling with a model of a plane. Several more adorned the desk along with the usual trappings of an executive. Looking up, he addressed the two men in the doorway. "Ah, you are here early, please be seated." he did not move from behind the desk and continued to fiddle with the model.

Antonio and Gaetano exchanged glances, and then took the offered seats. The door closed behind them.

"Now, I am going to cut to the chase gentlemen." The model reoccupied its display stand. "I have brought you here for one reason. You are the brightest minds in aerodynamics and reaction-gas propulsion that this country has [3]. I want to put you together for a task that will resonate thought history. I want you to make a man travel faster then the sound of my words."

[1] Selected for this project because of the Sagittario and Sagittario 2
[2] After his historical tenure at Aeronautic Engineering School ended in 1942 (historical), he joined the team at Fiat working on turbojets.
[3] Luigi Broglio is still in the service of the Aeronautica Militare and might join the project at a later date.

Fortunately, their new employer speaks slowly. ;)

If Italy is just starting this sort of project now, then they're about five years behind the R&D curve...

Five years behind? Perhaps in WW terms, without the war we've been able to set sights on developments like this perhaps a bit sooner than OTL. Only UK, USA and USSR were in the race then, and with the latter nation trailing behind a bit.

I'd expect Italy to invest in its wind tunnels etc. and engine development. Right now Italy hasn't done much with jet tech and is only just starting to catch up and hasn't even got a fully-fledged jet fighter in service yet. So this will be a steep learning curve, but if the end result is as beautiful than the Sagittario then it'll be worth it. We are probably just under a decade away from operational level-flight supersonic fighters if we are keeping to the as-OTL timeline rules.

All this is intended to do is add a supersonic test plane or two prior to the historical Sagittario. The idea in my head is for a pure rocket powered proof of concept plane that will fly at most +12 months after the historical Bell X-1 flight (I will adjust this date based on the pace of progress WWTL, but it will not fly before October 14, 1947). The second would be a hybrid Jet-Rocket plane that would fly at a WW appropriate date. After that, Gaetano Crocco is going to transition to work on high-altitude rockets and (eventually) orbital rockets, those being his personal side project during this time.

Quoted from "snip"

All this is intended to do is add a supersonic test plane or two prior to the historical Sagittario. The idea in my head is for a pure rocket powered proof of concept plane that will fly at most +12 months after the historical Bell X-1 flight (I will adjust this date based on the pace of progress WWTL, but it will not fly before October 14, 1947). The second would be a hybrid Jet-Rocket plane that would fly at a WW appropriate date. After that, Gaetano Crocco is going to transition to work on high-altitude rockets and (eventually) orbital rockets, those being his personal side project during this time.

Realistically speaking, you'd need at least four to five years to take this sort of design from blank-sheet + no design team, which is the stage you're at now, to first flight. That presumes you have consistent funding support, no major accidents, etc.

Just sayin...

Well, there is quite a gap in Antonio Ferri's continued work with regards to WWTLvOTL. (He would be still be with partisan fighters at this point). Given that his work with supersonic windtunnels was interrupted by WWII, it is not unreasonable to assume, IMO that his work could have lead to some early concepts of supersonic airframes. Given that he ended up working for the NACA for this sort of research, I do not feel this is a unreasonable assumption to make. So while it might not have been a full program up until this point, I think Antonio's research could have progressed more in the direction of airframes by this time given the lack of war. So I don't think it is starting from a totally blank sheet, and therefor the timeline is reasonable IMO.

Uh, but have you actually built any supersonic wind tunnels at Guidonia, or elsewhere? You would not be able to accumulate any data until you had a wind tunnel in which to test models. If you have to construct the wind tunnel, that adds more time to your timeline.

The Italian Wiki page for Antonio notes that he was involved in the construction of and experiments with the first Italian supersonic wind tunnels in approximately 1939-1940, and this date range is backed up by the English wiki as well (Im trying to track down a better source with a more exact date).

Ah, that sheds light on the issue. Your predecessor had not made mention of such.

Here is some better sourced information on Antonio's supersonic wind tunnel research. From National Academy of Engineering, Vol. 1, 1979 . He was made head of the Guidonia Supersonic Wind Tunnel in 1937 and countiued to work there until 1943. When Italy surrendered and Germany seized the facility, he was able to destroy much of the equipment and removed documents from the facility. I feel given the lack of WWII, not to mention the already profound differences between WW and OTL Italian aeronautical developments, that his research could have been more advanced by this time and could possibly have lead to very early concepts of supersonic airframes.

Ah, see... your original post strongly implied that the project was just starting, and that the R&D work needed to be done before a design could be postulated. Now you're noting other things which clarify that more: namely, that some data is already being gathered, and it's time to work on an airframe.

With this, I'm getting the impression that Italy's three years behind France and Britain, rather than five years. I've shared my notes and prospective timeline with Hood, because from what's been published so far, I think we're the two contenders for "first supersonic flight". Germany and the US probably are a bit behind us (though to be honest, I haven't seen anything saying either are actively working on a design).

For disclosure, the French agency ONERA originally set up their program for a first supersonic flight in late 1943 - and the project has so far been massively delayed and massively over budget. However, a full-size mockup of their eventual supersonic aircraft has existed for wind-tunnel testing since January of 1944, and a half-scale unmanned model will fly (disastrously) in October. At present, Breguet-Nord is undertaking a massive redesign of the aircraft in order to assimilate lessons learned; this puts the French on about the same timescale as Miles with their M.52. I've not set final dates yet, however.

What the SAI Ambrosini CEO is doing is bringing together the guy who will build the engines with the guy who designs the airframes. Most of the motivation for doing this is to make sure Ambrosini has the necessary experience with supersonic aircraft for the historical Sagittario 2 to make sense. I also wanted to get Gaetano Crocco working on a practical "modern" rocket project to compliment his theoretical work and previous experence with the intent of way in the future having him work with the first-generation Italian orbital rockets along with Luigi Broglio (timeline undetermined).