WesWorld

Hoo, I love your 240 mm design - for obvious reasons Can you hold her against the original El Cid? I have a feeling that we lost 3 Gg between 1921 and 1942, but my memory might be acting up ;o)

Oh and I have to add, thanks Rocky, for keeping the spirit of the Iberian Navy

You're welcome, but if you decide you want another kick at the can, say so.

The only really new ship type for 1944 is the Arlaban class landing ship (dock). Though a little slow to start building the type, compared to other European powers, the Iberians perceive the type to be of considerable value in amphibious operations - particularly if Iberian territory must be liberated from would-be conquerors.

Three units are on order, there being an expectation that the Iberian amphibious force will be expanded to three brigade-landing groups in the near future (Caribbean; Asia; Home).

As I understand the rules for landing ship costs, I will be deducting half the miscellaneous weight from the overall cost: 7,573 t - (0.5 * 3,491 = 1,745 t) = 5,828 t net cost.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1944

Displacement:
7,573 t light; 7,846 t standard; 11,624 t normal; 14,646 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
529.79 ft / 524.93 ft x 78.74 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
161.48 m / 160.00 m x 24.00 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1944 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1944 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1944 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 185 lbs / 84 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 shp / 7,460 Kw = 17.18 kts
Range 8,000 nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,813 tons
[Simmed as : Range 30,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,800 tons]

Complement:
559 - 727

Cost:
£2.154 million / $8.617 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 23 tons, 0.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 23 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 255 tons, 2.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,780 tons, 32.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,051 tons, 34.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 3,491 tons, 30.0 % + 4,987 t simmed as bunkerage = 8,478 t
-4,680 t: 130 x 15 x 2.4 m well deck (simmed as bunkerage)
-1,800 t: Cargo, vehicles, and landing craft as required
-900 t: Accommodation for 450 troops
-400 t: Workshops for boat and vehicle repair
-307 t: Vehicle fuel, stores, and ammo (simmed as bunkerage)
-150 t: 2x50 t and 2x25 t cranes
-100 t: Medical facilities
-100 t: Command facilities
-41 t: Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,495 lbs / 19,275 Kg = 633.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.98

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 33 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.56 ft / 8.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m (31.50 ft / 9.60 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 31.50 ft / 9.60 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Stern: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 22.36 ft / 6.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 42.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 237.1 %
Waterplane Area: 30,231 Square feet or 2,809 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 276 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 444 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.50
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

As I understand the rules for landing ship costs, I will be deducting half the miscellaneous weight from the overall cost: 7,573 t - (0.5 * 3,491 = 1,745 t) = 5,828 t net cost.

That rule for tank landing ships and the sort - ships designed to beach, not the big guys. At least that's my impression. If not, I think I get about three thousand tons back.

With LSDs you can either sim the weight of the water in the well with miscellaneous weight and then subtract that from build price, or you can sim the water using excess fuel, which subtracts it off in a different way. From looking over the sim, it appears you simmed water-as-fuel, which is the way I do it.

Ship looks very good, well-designed. Should be a very useful asset for Iberia.

Yeah, I'm going with the water-as-fuel method. Will be for the Bharati LSD in 1945, too.

The landing craft rules seems more specific than I'd thought, apparently.

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

The landing craft rules seems more specific than I'd thought, apparently.

Yes, and I don't think they're very clearly laid-out, either, so I definitely understand how confusion can arise. The rule originated in a discussion about LSTs, being specifically aimed at them; the idea being that Springsharp is calculating decks for crew and such where an LST has open areas. I've applied the rule as low as a tank landing craft (~250t) but I didn't feel it applied to my dock landing ships, where I was accounting for the weight of the well deck in another fashion already. *Shrugs.*

Oh...

Okay, I thought the point was to account for the weight of the cargo. That alterate explanation didn't occur to me.

Fair enough; I will call in the accountants...

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

Oh...

Okay, I thought the point was to account for the weight of the cargo. That alterate explanation didn't occur to me.

I believe that was part of Hrolf's original intent when he proposed the rule - and one of my own rules proposals suggested subtracting cargo weight and leaving everything else. (Another was to build the LST to, say, 50% light displacement, since a 1,500-ton LST should inherently be cheaper than a 1,500-ton destroyer.) But the various parties in the discussion adopted a middle-ground compromise.

The Leon class heavy cruisers are, for the most part, incremental improvements on the preceding Jefe class. The primary and obvious difference is that the main armament is not 4x3 210mm, but 4x2 210mm automatic turrets.

Four units are expected to be built in 1946 and 1947.

Leon, Iberian heavy cruiser, laid down 1946

Displacement:
16,572 t light; 17,532 t standard; 19,933 t normal; 21,853 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
736.62 ft / 720.14 ft x 78.74 ft x 24.61 ft (normal load)
224.52 m / 219.50 m x 24.00 m x 7.50 m

Armament:
8 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1946 Model
Automatic rapid fire guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1946 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,163 lbs / 1,435 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 467.03 ft / 142.35 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 107,239 shp / 80,000 Kw = 32.12 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,322 tons

Complement:
838 - 1,090

Cost:
£9.463 million / $37.853 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 452 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 5,104 tons, 25.6 %
- Belts: 2,025 tons, 10.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 932 tons, 4.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,146 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,678 tons, 13.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,369 tons, 37.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,361 tons, 16.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 969 tons, 4.9 %
-515 t: 8 x automatic 210mm guns at an additional 64.375 t each
-250 t: Fire control, electronics, comms
-150 t: Command facilities
-54 t: Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,295 lbs / 15,103 Kg = 117.8 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.23 ft / 8.30 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 21.80 ft / 6.64 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.4 %
Waterplane Area: 39,289 Square feet or 3,650 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 624 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The SG-1 class submarine is envisioned as a coastal-ish boat for use in the Caribbean and South China Sea. As a trade warfare role is possible - with all the rules associated with such - a main gun and a twin 25mm AA mount are carried for shooting up civilian ships and aircraft respectively. Two aft tubes are retained so the boat can turn away from threats and still be threatening if necessary.

Speed and range are not spectacular, but considered adequate (range in particular, given the close proximity of likely hunting grounds).

A run of twelve or more is envisioned.

Model: SG-1 class submarine
Date: 1945
Oceanic
Armament:
- Guns: 1x100mm, 2x25mm (latter as 5 t misc. weight)
- Torpedoes: 6x533mm (4F/2A) + 12 reloads (simmed as 24 mines)
- Mines: Up to 36 in place of torpedoes
Electric HP: 2,500 hp
Diesel HP: 3,000 hp
Crew: 45
wt fuel&batts: 156
Light Displacement: 952 t
Loaded Displacement/Kerb Weight: 1,082 t
Full Displacement: 1,277 t
Reserve buoyancy: 15%
Max Surf Speed: 15.80 knots
Max Sub Speed: 14.4 knots

Length: 69.0 m
Beam: 7.4 m
Draft: 5.0 m
Crush depth: 317.5 m and not a centimetre more
Tons Oil: 106 t
Tons Battery: 50 t
Cruise speed: 10 knots
Submerged speed: 5 knots
Surface Range: 7,019 nm @ 10 knots
Submerged Range: 65 @ 5 knots

Other Features:
-Snort Mast (10 t miscellaneous weight)
-Sonar (10 t miscellaneous weight)
-Basic surface-search radar (5 t miscellaneous weight)
-Weight reserve (10 t miscellaneous weight)

The Balista class light cruisers are also incremental improvements on the preceding Espada Ropera class; basically, the only material change is additional miscellaneous weight set aside for electronics and fire control as a result of lighter engine weights.

A run of six units is foreseen as replacement of older light cruisers continues at pace.



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1946

Displacement:
6,163 t light; 6,499 t standard; 7,555 t normal; 8,400 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
540.69 ft / 524.93 ft x 52.49 ft x 19.19 ft (normal load)
164.80 m / 160.00 m x 16.00 m x 5.85 m

Armament:
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1946 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 902 lbs / 409 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 341.21 ft / 104.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 68,561 shp / 51,146 Kw = 32.50 kts
Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,902 tons

Complement:
404 - 526

Cost:
£3.901 million / $15.605 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 113 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 1,273 tons, 16.9 %
- Belts: 550 tons, 7.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 28 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 695 tons, 9.2 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,712 tons, 22.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,745 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,392 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 4.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10,091 lbs / 4,577 Kg = 35.7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.26 ft / 7.70 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Stern: 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Average freeboard: 19.14 ft / 5.83 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.8 %
Waterplane Area: 19,093 Square feet or 1,774 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 417 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

The D-181 class destroyers will replace the early Cleito-era destroyers still soldiering on in Iberian service. Probably twelve units to be built over the next two years.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1946

Displacement:
2,060 t light; 2,214 t standard; 2,586 t normal; 2,883 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
430.75 ft / 419.95 ft x 42.65 ft x 11.48 ft (normal load)
131.29 m / 128.00 m x 13.00 m x 3.50 m

Armament:
6 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (3x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in one mount, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1946 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 440 lbs / 200 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400
4 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,577 shp / 34,000 Kw = 34.13 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 669 tons

Complement:
180 - 235

Cost:
£1.911 million / $7.643 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 55 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 13 tons, 0.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,080 tons, 41.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 758 tons, 29.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 525 tons, 20.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 154 tons, 6.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
888 lbs / 403 Kg = 13.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.90

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.440
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.85 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.67 ft / 6.30 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Stern: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 16.14 ft / 4.92 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 160.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.0 %
Waterplane Area: 11,771 Square feet or 1,094 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 192 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.15
- Overall: 0.54
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Quoted

Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

... and if there is a crew member aboard who complains about that, then it is obvious that they should not have joined the Iberian Navy.

Yes, yes, I know. We've had this discussion every time somebody posts a destroyer with less than 1.00 seakeeping.

I am actually surprised that you kept it that high.