WesWorld

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
That's an oversight, so I may give that a second look.

This'll be the first six-turret CLAA in Iberian service, so I suspect they're not going to get a feel for "insufficient directors" until they've done some trials and shoots. Perhaps modifications will be made down the line or the design tweaked for a new sub-class.

Very close to my Nemisis class ships, albeit a heavier secondary armament, and just a wee bit faster. Thats to be expected on a hull 300 tons heavier.

An impressive line up of modern and powerful ships. If Iberia wants to correct the impression of an outdated navy, these are the ships to do it with.

The CA's are tricky. I think it could be made more economical along the lines Hoo has shown, but generally it confirms my long-standing suspicion about CAs. Yes, they are powerful ships and they have a place but the cost always seems eyewateringly high for what you get. That's why I stopped further CAs and I think perhaps we should see the real-world Washington and London Treaty fears about heavy cruisers in a different light. I think there really was a danger of massive size escalation when you try to provide the necessary speed and armour. An ideal CA, at least in SS, always comes out around 15-17,000 tons.

New Iberian LSTs.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
989 t light; 1,042 t standard; 1,387 t normal; 1,663 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
265.76 ft / 262.47 ft x 43.64 ft x 6.23 ft (normal load)
81.01 m / 80.00 m x 13.30 m x 1.90 m

Armament:
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 26 lbs / 12 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 1,500

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,011 shp / 1,500 Kw = 14.80 kts
Range 8,000 nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 226 tons
(Simmed as: Range 22,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 621 tons)


Complement:
113 - 147

Cost:
£0.285 million / $1.139 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 6 tons, 0.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 53 tons, 3.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 560 tons, 40.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 398 tons, 28.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 367 tons, 26.5 % + 395 t simmed as bunkerage
-500 t: Vehicles:
-200 t: Accommodation for 100 vehicle personnel
-32 t : Miscellaneous weight
-30 t: Vehicle fuel and supplies (simmed as bunkerage)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,367 lbs / 2,888 Kg = 1,126.8 x 2.2 " / 57 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.82

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.680
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.02 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 33
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Stern: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 14.17 ft / 4.32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 45.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 209.4 %
Waterplane Area: 9,016 Square feet or 838 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 275 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 227 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.07
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

...and smaller LCTs. There's likely to be a bunch of these built for moving stuff around the Caribbean.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
357 t light; 377 t standard; 404 t normal; 425 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
134.13 ft / 131.23 ft x 36.09 ft x 4.59 ft (normal load)
40.88 m / 40.00 m x 11.00 m x 1.40 m

Armament:
2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mount
on centreline forward
4 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 1,500

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 938 shp / 700 Kw = 13.68 kts
Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 48 tons

Complement:
44 - 58

Cost:
£0.110 million / $0.440 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0.4 %
Armour: 3 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 3 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 25 tons, 6.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 167 tons, 41.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 47 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 39.6 %
-160 t: Vehicles and cargo

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,279 lbs / 580 Kg = 226.3 x 2.2 " / 57 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.46 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Stern: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 11.88 ft / 3.62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.4 %
Waterplane Area: 3,628 Square feet or 337 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 179 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 169 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.82
- Longitudinal: 5.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Didn't Iberia recently build a bunch of landing craft/ships that aren't yet in the encyclopedia? I think I remember Foxy mentioning that, but I haven't checked on it myself. I was under the impression that Iberia had quite a tidy fleet of landing craft already...

There are, but unless I missed something, they're all smaller LCM and LCI type craft.

Yeah, the Barco Del Aterrizaje (Landing Craft) is 29 t, and the Embarcacion De Ataque (Assault Boat) is 20 t. I've only found stats for the former so far, but obviously both are short-ranged and their vehicle capacity slim to none.

Ah, I didn't realize that.

Nice designs. Some real amphib capability in the Caribbean is going to make some waves, but doubtless Iberia needs transports like these to keep the territories well connected.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Ah, I didn't realize that.

In fairness, Mac did post a ~2,800 t LST design, but the sim reports don't show any actually being built.

With the big design, this bit...

Quoted

Fuel, ammunition & stores: 398 tons, 28.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 367 tons, 26.5 % + 395 t simmed as bunkerage

... reads as "3 tons left for 'Fuel, ammunition & stores'" to me.

"The Iberians are coming! The Iberians are coming!"

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
"The Iberians are coming! The Iberians are coming!"

Time to beat up the Mexicans using the soft cushions.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
Time to beat up the Mexicans using the soft cushions.

Don't forget the comfy chair.

The Patina class depot ships are intended to support large-scale fleet deployments to areas without pre-existing port facilities. This could include Iberia's American or Asian territories in scenarios where enemy action has rendered existing bases untenable. It could also include friendly but undeveloped territory visited in the course of a fleet lunge to the Confederation's outliers.

A run of four units, all built to civilian standards, has been ordered for 1942-3.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
8,400 t light; 8,719 t standard; 12,761 t normal; 15,995 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
476.59 ft / 464.76 ft x 78.74 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
145.26 m / 141.66 m x 24.00 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 344 lbs / 156 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 13,405 shp / 10,000 Kw = 18.26 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,426 tons
(Simmed as Range 30,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,276 tons)

Complement:
599 - 780

Cost:
£2.413 million / $9.651 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 43 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 46 tons, 0.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 46 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 350 tons, 2.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,686 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,361 tons, 34.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4,274 tons, 33.5 % + 4,850 t simmed as bunkerage = 9,124 t
-2,000 t: Accommodation for 1,000 personnel
-1,950 t: Parts and stores (as bunkerage)
-1,500 t: Repair, maintenance, and fabrication facilities (as bunkerage)
-1,000 t: Workspaces - Flag facilities, meteorology, etc.
-700 t: Boats, launches, cranes and davits
-900 t: Fresh water (as bunkerage)
-500 t: Crew amenities - Cinema, library, etc.
-500 t: Medical facilities
-74 t: Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,272 lbs / 15,999 Kg = 526.2 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 4.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.620
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.90 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.86 ft / 9.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.56 ft / 8.40 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m (27.56 ft / 8.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m (27.56 ft / 8.40 m before break)
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.20 ft / 7.38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 49.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 207.5 %
Waterplane Area: 27,269 Square feet or 2,533 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 238 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 458 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.17
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

The smaller Casado class depot ships are intended to support ongoing forward deployment of minor combattants (destroyers, subs, sloops, etc) in places like San Hainando, Angola, and the Americas.

Current budgeting calls for six units to be built to civilian standards over 1942-3.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1942

Displacement:
3,600 t light; 3,768 t standard; 6,634 t normal; 8,926 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
359.15 ft / 347.90 ft x 65.62 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
109.47 m / 106.04 m x 20.00 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1942 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 185 lbs / 84 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.38" / 35 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 8,043 shp / 6,000 Kw = 17.31 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,720 tons
(Simmed as Range 30,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,158 tons)

Complement:
366 - 477

Cost:
£1.113 million / $4.452 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 29 tons, 0.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 29 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 210 tons, 3.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,903 tons, 28.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,034 tons, 45.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,435 tons, 21.6 % + 3,438 tons simmed as bunkerage = 4,873 t
-1,000 t: Accommodation for 500 personnel
-1,000 t: Parts and stores
-1,000 t: Diesel
-600 t: Repair, maintenance, and fabrication facilities

-500 t: Fresh water
-300 t: Boats, launches, and cranes
-200 t: Workspace  Flag, meteorology, etc
-100 t: Amenities
-100 t: Medical facilities
-73 t: Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25,696 lbs / 11,655 Kg = 383.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 12.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.620
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.30 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m (24.28 ft / 7.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m (24.28 ft / 7.40 m before break)
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.92 ft / 6.38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 38.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 182.8 %
Waterplane Area: 17,010 Square feet or 1,580 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 321 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 376 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.79
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

That's some seriously heavy AA armament. I can't quite picture the layout of all these AA mounts but I can't imagine with boats and cranes topside there is going to be many decent arcs for that many guns.

It can be reduced, but similarly sized, historical RN depot ships had the same heavy battery at the least.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
It can be reduced, but similarly sized, historical RN depot ships had the same heavy battery at the least.

I agree - it seems rather heavy but compares will with the wartime outfits of the RN and USN. The fore and aft main guns are likely on bandstands, and should have decent firing arcs. The lighter AA is likely stuck where-ever there is deck space and in a real attack might find its placement less than optimal. The very light guns might not even be shipped in peace-time, though their mounts would be in place.