WesWorld

Quoted

4.574 t light; 4.761 t standard; 4.990 t normal; 5.173 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
459,71 ft / 456,00 ft x 52,00 ft x 16,01 ft (normal load)
140,12 m / 138,99 m x 15,85 m x 4,88 m

Armament:
2 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1912 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
10 - 1,00" / 25,4 mm guns (1x10 guns), 0,50lbs / 0,23kg shells, 1912 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on side
Weight of broadside 916 lbs / 416 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 310,01 ft / 94,49 m 12,01 ft / 3,66 m
Ends: 1,57" / 40 mm 146,00 ft / 44,50 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Upper: 1,18" / 30 mm 160,01 ft / 48,77 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 105% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,57" / 40 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 6,10" / 155 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
ERROR: Revise drives, 4 shafts, 35.613 shp / 26.567 Kw = 28,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 412 tons

Complement:
296 - 385

Cost:
£0,439 million / $1,756 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 115 tons, 2,3%
Armour: 1.012 tons, 20,3%
- Belts: 629 tons, 12,6%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 11 tons, 0,2%
- Armour Deck: 333 tons, 6,7%
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0,8%
Machinery: 1.305 tons, 26,2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.092 tons, 41,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 416 tons, 8,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6.539 lbs / 2.966 Kg = 61,0 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 13,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,460
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,77 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,00 ft / 6,40 m
- Forecastle (20%): 20,01 ft / 6,10 m
- Mid (70%): 20,01 ft / 6,10 m (10,01 ft / 3,05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 10,01 ft / 3,05 m
- Stern: 10,01 ft / 3,05 m
- Average freeboard: 17,09 ft / 5,21 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104,2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153,6%
Waterplane Area: 15.252 Square feet or 1.417 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 422 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,06
- Longitudinal: 1,80
- Overall: 1,12
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Thrasius-rebuild, China Light Cruiser laid down 1912 (Engine 1940)

Displacement:
4.400 t light; 4.535 t standard; 4.990 t normal; 5.353 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
459,71 ft / 456,00 ft x 52,00 ft x 16,01 ft (normal load)
140,12 m / 138,99 m x 15,85 m x 4,88 m

Armament:
1 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107,15lbs / 48,60kg shells, 1912 Model
Breech loading gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
8 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on side forward, all raised guns
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1940 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,15" / 80 mm 310,01 ft / 94,49 m 12,01 ft / 3,66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0,39" / 10 mm 0,39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20.986 shp / 15.655 Kw = 24,50 kts
Range 5.000nm at 16,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 818 tons

Complement:
296 - 385

Cost:
£0,247 million / $0,989 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 0,4%
Armour: 493 tons, 9,9%
- Belts: 489 tons, 9,8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 5 tons, 0,1%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 561 tons, 11,2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.078 tons, 41,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 590 tons, 11,8%
Miscellaneous weights: 1.250 tons, 25,1%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9.525 lbs / 4.320 Kg = 88,9 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,03
Metacentric height 2,0 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 15,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 83 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,65

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,460
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,77 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,35 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,00 ft / 6,40 m
- Forecastle (20%): 20,01 ft / 6,10 m
- Mid (70%): 20,01 ft / 6,10 m (10,01 ft / 3,05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 10,01 ft / 3,05 m
- Stern: 10,01 ft / 3,05 m
- Average freeboard: 17,09 ft / 5,21 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173,8%
Waterplane Area: 15.252 Square feet or 1.417 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 166%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 420 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,16
- Longitudinal: 1,86
- Overall: 1,22
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

1250tons = aircraft and vehicles:
--------------------------------------------
250tons = 10 planes
150tons = doors, landing craft launch system, cranes
700tons = 350 soldiers
50tons = 5 landing crafts
100tons = cargo

=> 50% rebuild !!!!!! needs 2200tons !!!

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Er, no offense - but is this a joke?

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
For the price of rebuilding those antiques, you could sim and construct a very potent landing ship that would last two decades or so, and would be far more useful than these... not entirely sure what to call them, really. I don't see the purpose of the flight deck: catapult or no, the width and length of the deck won't let the ship handle anything more than a Fieseler Storch or a Piper Grasshopper. The only advantage is that you could rebuild these ships in seven months, rather than waiting ten months for a good purpose-built ship. It just doesn't look like an idea anyone but the most desperate navy would consider.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Can I propose an alternate design?

Quoted

I don't see the purpose of the flight deck: catapult or no, the width and length of the deck won't let the ship handle anything more than a Fieseler Storch or a Piper Grasshopper.

Quoted

Originally posted by parador

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
For the price of rebuilding those antiques, you could sim and construct a very potent landing ship that would last two decades or so, and would be far more useful than these... not entirely sure what to call them, really. I don't see the purpose of the flight deck: catapult or no, the width and length of the deck won't let the ship handle anything more than a Fieseler Storch or a Piper Grasshopper. The only advantage is that you could rebuild these ships in seven months, rather than waiting ten months for a good purpose-built ship. It just doesn't look like an idea anyone but the most desperate navy would consider.

So you better scrap the CLs ???

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Chinassault 1, Chinese Landing Ship laid down 1941[/SIZE]

Displacement:
1,394 t light; 1,443 t standard; 1,764 t normal; 2,021 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
289.32 ft / 278.87 ft x 55.77 ft x 7.22 ft (normal load)
88.18 m / 85.00 m x 17.00 m x 2.20 m

Armament:
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 3.17lbs / 1.44kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1941 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 27 lbs / 12 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 800

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,966 shp / 2,212 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 5,500nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 578 tons

Complement:
135 - 176

Cost:
£0.387 million / $1.549 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 78 tons, 4.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 663 tons, 37.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 370 tons, 21.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 650 tons, 36.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,932 lbs / 2,237 Kg = 1,556.9 x 1.9 " / 47 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m before break)
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 12.40 ft / 3.78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 57.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.7 %
Waterplane Area: 10,855 Square feet or 1,008 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 212 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 50 lbs/sq ft or 244 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Miscellaneous Weight:
- 300 tons for 150 troops
- 300 tons for tanks, trucks, or vehicles
- 50 tons for other supplies

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Chinassault 2, Chinese Landing Ship laid down 1941[/SIZE]

Displacement:
4,247 t light; 4,358 t standard; 4,795 t normal; 5,144 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
398.33 ft / 393.70 ft x 59.06 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)
121.41 m / 120.00 m x 18.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:
8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.17lbs / 1.44kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1941 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 27 lbs / 12 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 900

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 3,677 shp / 2,743 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 5,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 787 tons

Complement:
287 - 374

Cost:
£1.021 million / $4.083 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 11 tons, 0.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 97 tons, 2.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,735 tons, 36.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 548 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,400 tons, 50.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,936 lbs / 5,414 Kg = 3,767.7 x 1.9 " / 47 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 32 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 32
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m before break)
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.11 ft / 6.13 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 220.1 %
Waterplane Area: 16,226 Square feet or 1,507 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 182 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 352 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 2.25
- Overall: 1.04
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Miscellaneous Weight:
- 300 tons for 1x heavy landing craft
- 72t for 8x landing craft (9t each)
- 28t for miscellaneous items associated with landing craft
- 800 tons for cargo
- 1200 tons for 600 troops

Quoted

Originally posted by parador

Quoted

I don't see the purpose of the flight deck: catapult or no, the width and length of the deck won't let the ship handle anything more than a Fieseler Storch or a Piper Grasshopper.

Do you think they will be usefull without the flight deck "only" as troop transport ???

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Also these flight deck amphibs look cool, yes the IJA tried some OTL...

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Also these flight deck amphibs look cool, yes the IJA tried some OTL...

Unless I'm forgetting something, I think all of the IJA's conversions were rather larger, too - 10-12,000 tons. I don't know of any that were this small. That about right, or am I forgetting something?

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Yes. You can net a nice 686 tons from scrapping each ship (I can't find out how many you have) and apply that, with your 2,200 tons assigned to the rebuild,
to turn out a nice landing ship instead. A 1912 cruiser hull just isn't worth the effort to restore - it's been tramping along for thirty years by now, with
all the strain and stress that involves. Sure, it's better than nothing, but not by much.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
At present, it appears the Chinese amphibious forces are primarily infantry-based, and have no larger ships to unload tanks or supplies. You've already got
some fast transports, so what *I'd* do is make something in the 900-1,500 ton range, similar to an LST - or a larger ship built like a small assault landing
ship, with a squadron of small landing craft to take troops ashore.

I *think* you've got six of these, so you'd get around 4116 tons from scrapping them. If you planned on refitting all six at 2,200t a pop, you've probably
got ~17,316 tons to play with. That'd let you build six ships of design one (below) and two ships of design 2.

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
Thanks for your simulations. I think/hope i can use them for building the vessels ?