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Discussion thread for the subject.

Visayan class, Philippines Armoured Cruiser laid down 1941

Displacement: 20,790 t light; 22,044 t standard; 24,516 t normal; 26,494 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

735.08 ft / 716.86 ft x 68.90 ft (Bulges 75.79 ft) x 27.23 ft (normal load) [ 224.05 m / 218.50 m x 21.00 m (Bulges 23.10 m) x 8.30 m]

Armament:

9 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1936 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (1x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1941 Model Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
12 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (6x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1941 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, evenly spread
24 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,709 lbs / 3,043 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 557.74 ft / 170.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges: 1.38" / 35 mm 557.74 ft / 170.00 m 26.25 ft / 8.00 m

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.27" / 210 mm 5.12" / 130 mm 8.27" / 210 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 4 shafts, 139,994 shp / 104,436 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 13,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,449 tons

Complement: 979 - 1,273

Cost: £12.055 million / $48.220 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 839 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 6,549 tons, 26.7 %
- Belts: 2,192 tons, 8.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 746 tons, 3.0 %
- Armament: 1,402 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,152 tons, 8.8 %
- Conning Tower: 57 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,700 tons, 15.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,303 tons, 37.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,726 tons, 15.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 33,596 lbs / 15,239 Kg = 50.2 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.85
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.46: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Stern: 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Average freeboard: 25.16 ft / 7.67 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.8 %
Waterplane Area: 36,934 Square feet or 3,431 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 721 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.52
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight:

Reserved for installation of radar and other electronics - 100 tons
Aviation facilities - three scouting aircraft, catapults and cranes located aft - 200 tons
Tropicalization - 100 tons

Surigao class, Philippines Light Cruiser laid down 1941

Displacement: 7,300 t light; 7,637 t standard; 8,493 t normal; 9,178 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

570.88 ft / 557.74 ft x 53.31 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load) [174.00 m / 170.00 m x 16.25 m x 6.00 m]

Armament:

8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 106.92lbs / 48.50kg shells, 1941 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (4x2 guns), 48.50lbs / 22.00kg shells, 1941 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,264 lbs / 573 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 220
6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 1.57" / 40 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 76,716 shp / 57,230 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 8,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,542 tons

Complement: 442 - 575

Cost: £4.123 million / $16.493 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 152 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 1,306 tons, 15.4 %
- Belts: 338 tons, 4.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 187 tons, 2.2 %
- Armour Deck: 756 tons, 8.9 %
- Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,027 tons, 23.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,615 tons, 42.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,193 tons, 14.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 12,615 lbs / 5,722 Kg = 122.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.508
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.46: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.07 ft / 8.25 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m (23.79 ft / 7.25 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m (22.97 ft / 7.00 m before break)
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.38 ft / 6.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.4 %
Waterplane Area: 20,754 Square feet or 1,928 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 460 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.44
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight

Reserved for radar and electronics suite: 100 tons
Tropicalization: 100 tons

Pinatubo class, Philippine Destroyer laid down 1941

Displacement: 1,890 t light; 2,001 t standard; 2,225 t normal; 2,404 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

392.22 ft / 380.58 ft x 38.06 ft x 12.80 ft (normal load) [119.55 m / 116.00 m x 11.60 m x 3.90 m]

Armament:

6 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (3x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1941 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 292 lbs / 132 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42,024 shp / 31,350 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 403 tons

Complement: 161 - 210

Cost: £1.479 million / $5.918 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 36 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 18 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 15 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 1,018 tons, 45.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 747 tons, 33.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 335 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 3.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 817 lbs / 371 Kg = 17.6 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.420
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m (14.44 ft / 4.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Stern: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 17.87 ft / 5.45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 165.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.3 %
Waterplane Area: 9,376 Square feet or 871 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 190 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.61
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of miscellaneous Weight

Reserved for radar and other electronics - 40 tons
Tropicalization - 30 tons

Colorado class, Philippine Minesweeper laid down 1941

Displacement: 475 t light; 510 t standard; 633 t normal; 731 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

198.56 ft / 191.93 ft x 25.26 ft x 7.87 ft (normal load) [60.52 m / 58.50 m x 7.70 m x 2.40 m]

Armament:

2 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns in single mounts, 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1941 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
2 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 96 lbs / 43 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,581 shp / 1,925 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 8,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 222 tons

Complement: 62 - 81

Cost: £0.224 million / $0.896 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 12 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 8 tons, 1.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 68 tons, 10.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 267 tons, 42.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 158 tons, 24.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 19.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1,217 lbs / 552 Kg = 26.2 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.60: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.42 ft / 4.70 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m aft of break)
- Mid (35 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (35 %): 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Stern: 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 10.71 ft / 3.26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.1 %
Waterplane Area: 3,480 Square feet or 323 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 176 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 42 lbs/sq ft or 207 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.03
- Longitudinal: 4.44
- Overall: 1.20
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight

Sonar and A/S detection gear - 25 tons
Anti-submarine armament - DC racks for 24 DC and two K-guns - 20 tons
Minesweeping equipment - 50 tons
Tropicalization - 25 tons

Before commenting on specific designs - what're the Philippine's needs and strategy, and how will various designs fit into them?

I really like the look of the Visayans.

On the Pinatubo class destroyers, is there no weight reserved for an ASW fit? That strikes me as a bit odd.

The Filipinos use 155m guns not 150mm. Why the 11" guns on the BC? Only one ship the ex-Polish BC uses them.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
The Filipinos use 155m guns not 150mm. Why the 11" guns on the BC? Only one ship the ex-Polish BC uses them.

Various vessels of the Philippine Navy use 155mm guns and others 150mm guns.

The 150mm was introduced on the Tawi-Tawi class cruiser and is listed in the Filipino naval ordnance table.

The 155mm gun appears employed on escort cruisers and gunboats, with different roles and requirements.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
I really like the look of the Visayans.

On the Pinatubo class destroyers, is there no weight reserved for an ASW fit? That strikes me as a bit odd.

That is a valid point, and one worth considering - thus the vital role of peer review.

Quoted

Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Before commenting on specific designs - what're the Philippine's needs and strategy, and how will various designs fit into them?

One of the Philippines’ principal needs is refurbishment of its surface force. There were plans proposed to overhaul and refit the battlecruisers Bohol and Samal, which will not be proceeded with. Rather, the vessels will be offered for disposal or scrapped, if buyers cannot be found. The Visayan class armored cruisers are seen as a viable replacement for the two battlecruisers being disposed of; not to stand in a line of battle, but to execute surface attacks on enemy convoys. The inability or unwillingness to risk the battlecruisers to interdict Chinese convoys sailing to the Spratley Islands is seen as a major cause for the failure to secure a more favorable outcome in the recent conflict. Operating in concert with other heavy units, the Visayans are expected to overwhelm convoy escorts and interdict the supply routes of any potential invader.

The current cruiser force of the Philippine Navy suffered heavily in the recent conflict, and there is a need for replacement tonnage. Many of more modern cruisers, while adequate as antiaircraft escorts, lack gun power for surface actions. The Surigao class is seen as a modest compromise capable of building and commissioning within two years.

The destroyer force of the Philippine Navy suffered quite heavily in the recent conflict, and while foreign-built tonnage has been secured to make up numbers, far too many vessels are overage and are heterogeneous in terms of ordnance and equipment. The previous domestic destroyer design is no longer considered sufficiently seaworthy for long distance patrols necessary to interdict potential enemy convoys.

Many of the older minesweeping vessels of the Philippine Navy are reaching the end of their useful lives. The Colorado design is proposed as a utility vessel capable of rapid production to replace antiquated tonnage.

Brock's comment regarding the lack of anti-submarine equipment in the original design proposal is a valid one, and I have revised the design to address it.

------

Pinatubo class - Rev A, Philippine Destroyer laid down 1941

Displacement: 1,890 t light; 2,001 t standard; 2,225 t normal; 2,404 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

392.22 ft / 380.58 ft x 38.06 ft x 12.80 ft (normal load) [119.55 m / 116.00 m x 11.60 m x 3.90 m]

Armament:

6 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (3x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1941 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 292 lbs / 132 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 37,167 shp / 27,727 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 403 tons

Complement: 161 - 210

Cost: £1.418 million / $5.672 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 36 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 18 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 15 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 947 tons, 42.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 787 tons, 35.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 335 tons, 15.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 4.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 955 lbs / 433 Kg = 20.6 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 12.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has rise forward of midbreak and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.420
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.50 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m (14.44 ft / 4.40 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Stern: 14.44 ft / 4.40 m
- Average freeboard: 17.87 ft / 5.45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 157.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.3 %
Waterplane Area: 9,376 Square feet or 871 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 201 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.54
- Longitudinal: 2.77
- Overall: 0.64
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of miscellaneous Weight

Reserved for radar and other electronics - 15 tons
Sonar and other submarine detection equipment - 25 tons
Antisubmarine armament - two depth charge racks for 48 DC and four K-guns - 30 tons
Tropicalization - 30 tons

Corrected several errors in the layout of the armament

-----

Colorado class - Rev A, Philippine Minesweeper laid down 1941

Displacement: 475 t light; 510 t standard; 633 t normal; 731 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

198.56 ft / 191.93 ft x 25.26 ft x 7.87 ft (normal load) [60.52 m / 58.50 m x 7.70 m x 2.40 m]

Armament:

2 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns in single mounts, 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1941 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1941 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 96 lbs / 43 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 400

Armour:

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:

Diesel Internal combustion motors, Geared drive, 2 shafts, 2,581 shp / 1,925 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 8,800nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 222 tons

Complement: 62 - 81

Cost: £0.224 million / $0.896 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 12 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 8 tons, 1.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 68 tons, 10.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 267 tons, 42.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 158 tons, 24.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 19.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 1,224 lbs / 555 Kg = 26.4 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.21
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.580
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.42 ft / 4.70 m (14.76 ft / 4.50 m aft of break)
- Mid (35 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (35 %): 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Stern: 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
- Average freeboard: 10.71 ft / 3.26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.1 %
Waterplane Area: 3,480 Square feet or 323 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 176 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 42 lbs/sq ft or 207 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.05
- Longitudinal: 4.50
- Overall: 1.22
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Breakdown of miscellaneous weight

Sonar and A/S detection gear - 25 tons
Anti-submarine armament - DC racks for 24 DC and two K-guns - 20 tons
Minesweeping equipment - 50 tons
Tropicalization - 25 tons

If the Philippines are short of destroyers and need extra capacity and are looking abroad for new designs then Thornycroft can provide the following based on the current RN N Class design.

Thornycroft Export Destroyer, Great Britain/ Philippines Destroyer laid down 1941

Displacement:
1,848 t light; 1,951 t standard; 2,210 t normal; 2,416 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
369.28 ft / 360.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 13.70 ft (normal load)
112.56 m / 109.73 m x 10.67 m x 4.18 m

Armament:
6 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (3x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1936 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 294 lbs / 133 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350
8 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 45,000 shp / 33,570 Kw = 34.20 kts
Range 5,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 465 tons

Complement:
160 - 209

Cost:
£1.496 million / $5.986 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 37 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 15 tons, 0.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 15 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,047 tons, 47.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 659 tons, 29.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 362 tons, 16.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
658 lbs / 298 Kg = 14.2 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.448
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.50 ft / 7.77 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Mid (45 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 16.78 ft / 5.11 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.4 %
Waterplane Area: 8,335 Square feet or 774 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 80 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 181 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.53
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Class Names: HMS Meteor, Musketeer, Myrmidon, Milne, Matchless, Marksman, Moon and Matador
HMS Noble, Napier, Nerissa, Nonpareil, Norman, Newark, Newmarket and Nemesis

Misc weight includes:
Asdic - 20 tons
RDF (x2) - 20 tons (* if only one RDF set is fitted then 11 tons are available for tropical equipment)
2 DC racks and 4 DCT for 64 DC - 36 tons
4 reload torpedoes and handling gear - 8 tons

Tonnage: 56
Dimensions: 78' x 20'8" x 5'3"
Machinery: Three shafts, marine diesel engines, 1,500 bhp; 40 knots.
Crew: 17
Armament: Four 533mm torepdoes, four 15mm Machineguns in twin mounts.

Why not go all the way up to the 12"/55 guns that Swampy helped develop for the old Rios? I know he planned to refit the battlecruisers with them, so the guns must be available for you to use.

Quoted

Originally posted by Fyrwulf2
Why not go all the way up to the 12"/55 guns that Swampy helped develop for the old Rios? I know he planned to refit the battlecruisers with them, so the guns must be available for you to use.

Several reasons:

1 - I'm trying to pick up the pieces of the Philippines and don't know all the backstory on ordnance developent.

2 - The Visayans are intended to work with the battlecruiser Mindanao, and are armed with the same gun.