WesWorld

It is cheaper than a Montana to build though, and that perhaps in game terms is most important. Plus, I would be using that design to replace 5 of the 8 old 21 knot 14in ships the USN has in service so manning an operating the ships would come from the budget and crews of the potential former USS Texas, Nevada, Oklahoma, Arizona, and Pennsylvania.

That decision though can wait at least another year, as mentioned the Texas the first of the ships mentioned really only begins degrading in effectiveness in 1943.

Quoted

I am quite sure they are, but I don't dislike the class that much.

Considering that you want to make a big hole in it or run it into Lon-giland, I'd say you hate them so much, that you are too embarrased to give them away, let alone sell them to potential victims. *runs away*

Quoted

Its based off the numbers I got out of Conway's therefore there are 36 fighters, 37 dive bombers, and 18 torpedo bombers.

The thing is that with 91 x 91 = 8281 tons, you have a mere 219 tons left for radars, flag facilities, extra ammunition, etc. I prefer a bit more than that for additional stuff.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

I am quite sure they are, but I don't dislike the class that much.

Considering that you want to make a big hole in it or run it into Lon-giland, I'd say you hate them so much, that you are too embarrased to give them away, let alone sell them to potential victims. *runs away*

Quoted

Its based off the numbers I got out of Conway's therefore there are 36 fighters, 37 dive bombers, and 18 torpedo bombers.

The thing is that with 91 x 91 = 8281 tons, you have a mere 219 tons left for radars, flag facilities, extra ammunition, etc. I prefer a bit more than that for additional stuff.

I don't like Essex much really. Sure its a well-balanced, practical ship that has no real flaws.

But thats exactly why I don't like it, the ships had little personality, its too "German" for me. Then again, I hate Volkswagons too. *shrugs*.

I guess the historical 91 aircraft is out, move the airgroup down to 84 then. Even with that its still heavier than Essex was which just goes to show how difficult it is to sim historical ships in Springsharp.

*shrugs*

Cruisers- Part One

The first pair of Los Angeles Class Heavy Cruisers complete in 1942, the following quarter another pair will also be laid down to be named USS New Orleans and USS Indianapolis.

The Northampton class heavy cruisers is due for a refit in 1942, initially it was decided to go with a modest refit, but after some consideration (I needed tonnage space to fit radar) it was decided to give them a more comprehensive update: new engines, the shortening and strengthing of the main belt, additional deck and turret face armour, the replacement of the 5in singles with more modern 5in twins, additional light AA guns, and of course the addition of radar. With the new more efficient engines it was decided to increase the cruising range by 1,000 nautical miles, and finally, 30 extra shells were added for the main guns.

Northampton, United States Heavy Cruiser laid down 1927 (Engine 1942)

Displacement:
9,998 t light; 10,480 t standard; 11,867 t normal; 12,977 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
599.94 ft / 582.00 ft x 66.00 ft x 24.80 ft (normal load)
182.86 m / 177.39 m x 20.12 m x 7.56 m

Armament:
9 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,820 lbs / 1,279 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 349.10 ft / 106.41 m 9.75 ft / 2.97 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 4.00" / 102 mm

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 93,221 shp / 69,543 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,497 tons

Complement:
568 - 739

Cost:
£3.589 million / $14.356 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 352 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 2,080 tons, 17.5 %
- Belts: 724 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 404 tons, 3.4 %
- Armour Deck: 897 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,435 tons, 20.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,881 tons, 41.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,869 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,631 lbs / 6,636 Kg = 57.2 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.436
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.12 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 29.50 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.60 ft / -0.79 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.70 ft / 9.66 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 27.30 ft / 8.32 m
- Mid (45 %): 22.95 ft / 7.00 m (15.90 ft / 4.85 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (27 %): 16.80 ft / 5.12 m
- Stern: 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Average freeboard: 21.43 ft / 6.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.1 %
Waterplane Area: 24,231 Square feet or 2,251 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 590 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.95
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Those twin enclosed 5" mounts are going to be MUCH heavier than the old singles, and I think you have them simmed wrong. I've always counted them as mount & hoist and they also have armored gunhouses.

Well, it depends on what he has in mind.

It could be something like this with the ammunition stored on deck.

Quoted

Originally posted by CanisD
Those twin enclosed 5" mounts are going to be MUCH heavier than the old singles, and I think you have them simmed wrong. I've always counted them as mount & hoist and they also have armored gunhouses.

Mount and Hoist vs. deck mount shouldn't be a huge difference. Basically, the weight savings from reengining them allows it, as far as Springsharp is concerned.

And while, historically, it's unlikely you could swap modern twin mounts for the singles like this....
Springsharp allows it. And players have done things like this, both with historical-ish designs, and more original designs. Constraining players with historical ships to historical limitations is a bit unfair given the various nonhistoric refits that haven't had similar guidelines or restrictions.

(apologies, but I got a lot of "You can't do better/different than Renown's historical refit" commentary a few years back, so it's a touchy subject for me)

Quoted

Originally posted by CanisD
Those twin enclosed 5" mounts are going to be MUCH heavier than the old singles, and I think you have them simmed wrong. I've always counted them as mount & hoist and they also have armored gunhouses.

Well, I started from the sim you gave me Canis, and that had 8 5in in singles, also you may have counted them as mount and hoist but in the sim's I have as well as the ones you posted in the encyclopedia you have them as deck mounts, with no armour.

I did revise it somewhat though:

Northampton, United States Heavy Cruiser laid down 1927 (Engine 1942)

Displacement:
9,998 t light; 10,480 t standard; 11,867 t normal; 12,977 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
599.94 ft / 582.00 ft x 66.00 ft x 24.80 ft (normal load)
182.86 m / 177.39 m x 20.12 m x 7.56 m

Armament:
9 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1927 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,820 lbs / 1,279 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 349.10 ft / 106.41 m 9.75 ft / 2.97 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.50" / 64 mm -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 93,221 shp / 69,543 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,497 tons

Complement:
568 - 739

Cost:
£3.589 million / $14.356 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 352 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 2,153 tons, 18.1 %
- Belts: 724 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 477 tons, 4.0 %
- Armour Deck: 897 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,435 tons, 20.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,807 tons, 40.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,869 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,591 lbs / 6,618 Kg = 57.0 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.436
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.12 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 29.50 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.60 ft / -0.79 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.70 ft / 9.66 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 27.30 ft / 8.32 m
- Mid (45 %): 22.95 ft / 7.00 m (15.90 ft / 4.85 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (27 %): 16.80 ft / 5.12 m
- Stern: 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Average freeboard: 21.43 ft / 6.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.1 %
Waterplane Area: 24,231 Square feet or 2,251 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs/sq ft or 581 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Cruisers Part Two

The United States Navy plans on continuing the Olympia Class Programme it began in the 1939/40 fiscal year, also the Navy plans on undertaking design work on reconstruction of the Columbia Class Cruisers for either the 1942/43 or 1943/44 fiscal years.

Destroyers

A new class of destroyers is to be laid down, with two laid down initially and 2 more planned for the following fiscal year.

Ingraham, United States Destroyer laid down 1942

Displacement:
2,421 t light; 2,523 t standard; 2,878 t normal; 3,162 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
377.10 ft / 369.00 ft x 42.00 ft x 15.66 ft (normal load)
114.94 m / 112.47 m x 12.80 m x 4.77 m

Armament:
6 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (3x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (5 mounts), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised guns
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 386 lbs / 175 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
10 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 56,812 shp / 42,382 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 639 tons

Complement:
196 - 255

Cost:
£2.017 million / $8.066 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 48 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 29 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 29 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,368 tons, 47.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 875 tons, 30.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 457 tons, 15.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 3.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
935 lbs / 424 Kg = 15.0 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 11.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.415
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.42 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.50 ft / 0.46 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.50 ft / 8.38 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.50 ft / 7.16 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Stern: 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Average freeboard: 19.11 ft / 5.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.6 %
Waterplane Area: 9,995 Square feet or 929 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 83 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 43 lbs/sq ft or 210 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.98
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Miscellaneous Weight Distribution:

Radar/Sonar - 50 tons.
10 reload torpedos - 19 tons (1.9 tons/torpedo)
Depth Charge Launcher/Depth Charges - 31 tons

I think that you could have an error in the secondary battery of 1.1-in guns. Sixteen guns in 5 mounts? Seems odd though I suppose not impossible.

3 quads and 2 twins maybe.....

Ingraham, United States Destroyer laid down 1942

Displacement:
2,377 t light; 2,478 t standard; 2,829 t normal; 3,110 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
377.10 ft / 369.00 ft x 42.00 ft x 15.66 ft (normal load)
114.94 m / 112.47 m x 12.80 m x 4.77 m

Armament:
6 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (3x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft
Weight of broadside 386 lbs / 175 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
10 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 55,884 shp / 41,689 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 632 tons

Complement:
193 - 252

Cost:
£1.983 million / $7.933 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 48 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 29 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 29 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,342 tons, 47.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 858 tons, 30.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 452 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 3.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
911 lbs / 413 Kg = 14.6 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 11.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.408
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.50 ft / 0.46 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.50 ft / 8.38 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.50 ft / 7.16 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Stern: 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Average freeboard: 19.11 ft / 5.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.7 %
Waterplane Area: 9,949 Square feet or 924 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 42 lbs/sq ft or 207 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.49
- Longitudinal: 2.97
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Miscellaneous Weight Breakdown

Radar/Sonar 50 tons
10 Torpedo Reloads 19 tons (1.9 tons/torpedo)
Depth Charge Launcher/Depth Charges 31 tons