WesWorld

Since the beginning of the game, the French have had two drydocks located in the Crozet Islands, in the Indian Ocean (a D2 and a D1). I have a bit of an issue with this positioning, as the Crozet Islands are... well. I'll let pictures show the problem.


Caption: Crozet's leading citizens stand in front of the view of their island's best harbour.

In short, the inland's uninhabited and doesn't really have any sort of sheltered coastline suitable for serving as a French naval shipyard. I kinda have to presume that the drydocks were put there without knowledge of the island's completely unsuitable climate or conditions. Even in modern times, the only inhabitants are members of the French Antarctic Survey, which, naturally, tells you everything you need to know about the place. In fact, as near as I've been able to find, the drydocks have only been used to scrap several ships. In other words, even in Wesworld, they're not getting used.

If I may, I'd like to make an adjustment to fix this problem.

I have a possible alternative I'd like to present. With everyone's permission, I'd like to turn these two drydocks into their equivalent IP worth in floating drydocks. If that is unacceptable, I'd like to request that the facilities be moved somewhere else which might actually have a population and a harbour to justify their existence.

Opinions please?

Either or Brock, it doesn't affect me directly therefore I am in the apathy boat on this one.

I do see the point though I do wonder how those penguins scrapped the ships?

On general principles, I would say that your proposal addresses most of the issues. I am concerned, however, with the current rule for floating dry docks and how it would apply to your proposal.

The current rule states: "A floating repair dock costs half the IP of a comparable "land" drydock (graving dock) but is only capable of repairing ships or conducting Major Refits, and never to build a new warship. Additionally, a floating repair dock should be in place in sheltered waters for a full quarter prior to it's use."

The two docks in question, a D2 and a D1, would currently have a value of 5 IP total. Converting such to floating dry docks at the stated cost of floating dry docks would allow you to have a floating D2 and D1 dock at Crozet Island and still be in pocket for IPs to spend on additional docks.

Or, in your proposal, do you merely wish to declare the D2 and D1 docks in question as floating dry docks and not convert the theoretical 'surplus' into additional docks.

If the first, I would hesitate; if the second, I would give a qualified yes.

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Originally posted by TheCanadian
I do see the point though I do wonder how those penguins scrapped the ships?

They pushed their leaders off the bow and the Crozet Island killer whales attacked; and in the mad mayhem of the feeding frenzy the whale tails smacked the ships and helped break them up.

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Originally posted by BruceDuncan
On general principles, I would say that your proposal addresses most of the issues. I am concerned, however, with the current rule for floating dry docks and how it would apply to your proposal.

The current rule states: "A floating repair dock costs half the IP of a comparable "land" drydock (graving dock) but is only capable of repairing ships or conducting Major Refits, and never to build a new warship. Additionally, a floating repair dock should be in place in sheltered waters for a full quarter prior to it's use."

The two docks in question, a D2 and a D1, would currently have a value of 5 IP total. Converting such to floating dry docks at the stated cost of floating dry docks would allow you to have a floating D2 and D1 dock at Crozet Island and still be in pocket for IPs to spend on additional docks.

Or, in your proposal, do you merely wish to declare the D2 and D1 docks in question as floating dry docks and not convert the theoretical 'surplus' into additional docks.

If the first, I would hesitate; if the second, I would give a qualified yes.

Neither: I want to turn the D1 and the D2 into floating drydocks of equivalent IP value. The IP was, after all, spent there at startup, and I don't really feel that having Worth-in-IP go and vanish would be correct and proper procedure. I might even argue that, by requesting they be turned into floating drydocks, it's still a decrease in overall value as floating drydocks can only repair or give a major refit.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
Neither: I want to turn the D1 and the D2 into floating drydocks of equivalent IP value. The IP was, after all, spent there at startup, and I don't really feel that having Worth-in-IP go and vanish would be correct and proper procedure. I might even argue that, by requesting they be turned into floating drydocks, it's still a decrease in overall value as floating drydocks can only repair or give a major refit.

The result would be conversion into a a D5 and a D3 floating repair dock. I agree that if the conversion is agreed to in principle, then the player should not be penalized by loss of IP. That would a logical application of the rule as written.

I agree with you that the infrastructure was most likely placed there without full knowledge of the local conditions. The existance of a permanent naval dockyard in that location is not logical. In this instance I would agree that relocation or conversion of the infrastructure in question is logical. I would therefore agree to your proposal in this instance.

However, I think this should not be setting a precedent, and that we as players need to examine any future requests by any player to adjust 'oddities' in infrastructure on a case-by-case basis.

I vote for moving the drydocks. Seems too unbalancing to go to a D5 and D3, despite the IP cost.

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Originally posted by BruceDuncan
I agree with you that the infrastructure was most likely placed there without full knowledge of the local conditions. The existance of a permanent naval dockyard in that location is not logical. In this instance I would agree that relocation or conversion of the infrastructure in question is logical. I would therefore agree to your proposal in this instance.

However, I think this should not be setting a precedent, and that we as players need to examine any future requests by any player to adjust 'oddities' in infrastructure on a case-by-case basis.

I agree, it shouldn't set a precedent. I've always said that I want such discussions to be determined in public on a case-by-case basis.

Why not "erase" the drydocks at Crozet Island and "build" them on another place ??? So i vote for moving them !!! (No IP loosing or other problems )

Just moving the drydocks might be the best move.

My only concern is that at the start of the SIM we had no floating dry dock rules and no rules to produce any and so by re-spending old IPs you're gaining something that previous French players had no access to before the recent rule changes.

I put them there in case the RRE (Reich Roman Empire) would block the Central Med. In that case, France could run a SLOC to the Pacific from Abidjan to Crozet Islands to Noumea. Difficult, but not totally impossible.

Then AoWWT threw his tantrum and left, and the problem solved itself.

Go ahead and move 'em.

I still strongly prefer to switch them to floating drydocks. It will explain why the drydocks are sitting there at Crozet, and it still provides me with the opportunity to move them without retconning them away to some other location.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
I still strongly prefer to switch them to floating drydocks. It will explain why the drydocks are sitting there at Crozet, and it still provides me with the opportunity to move them without retconning them away to some other location.

Unfortunately, the end result is you being able to essentially convert docks of dubious value (fixed, remote, etc) into floating docks of improved value (ie, mobile)....instantly. Anyone else who wants floating docks has to do it from scratch, because (as noted) this was not an option until recently.

I can endorse moving them somewhere else in the region with a handwave for common sense purposes, but I can't really get behind altering the gameplay mechanics like your preferred option would do.

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Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
I can endorse moving them somewhere else in the region with a handwave for common sense purposes, but I can't really get behind altering the gameplay mechanics like your preferred option would do.

I second that. Move them in the region. A conversion I cannot support for the reasons already presented.

All right then. Since it seems so many people don't agree that moving to floating drydocks will be balanced, I guess I'll go along with that, though I still prefer my proposed option. *Shrug*

I believe France has other island possessions in the South Indian Ocean. Moving them to an inhabited spot would satisfy the original goal. If those conditions can't be met, the South Pacific would be the next proper spot. So that would be my vote.

I could be wrong, but I don't think floating drydocks even existed in original setup, and are arguably more useful than two out of the way docks. So I would not be in favor of that.

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Originally posted by HoOmAn

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Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
I can endorse moving them somewhere else in the region with a handwave for common sense purposes, but I can't really get behind altering the gameplay mechanics like your preferred option would do.

I second that. Move them in the region. A conversion I cannot support for the reasons already presented.

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Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
I believe France has other island possessions in the South Indian Ocean.

Yeah, I have Kerguelen, which has the same population issues. Everything else that was historically French was taken by the SAE.

*raises a "Return Reunion!" banner.*

Hey!

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
Hey!

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Originally posted by Brockpaine

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Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
I believe France has other island possessions in the South Indian Ocean.

Yeah, I have Kerguelen, which has the same population issues. Everything else that was historically French was taken by the SAE.

*raises a "Return Reunion!" banner.*

Vive la révolution!!