WesWorld

(A summary of near-term plans for the Luftwaffe; plans for the Marineflieger will appear at a later date)

The Luftwaffe has attained its primary goals of creating a viable air defence organisation for the national territory and of creating a tactical support arm for the Heer. In the near term the focus of the Luftwaffe will be on creation of a viable strategic bombing force, the completion of the national air defence network and the creation of a viable night air defence force for the national territory. The Luftwaffe recognises the need for a new generation of aircraft and aircraft armament to meet its future needs in the face of potential challenges abroad, and has committed itself to the development of reaction engines capable of meeting these needs.


Current Strength

As of December 1940 the Luftwaffe fields fourteen geschwader equipped with single engine fighter aircraft (He100, Bf109 and Fw190) – with a first-line strength of 2,688 machines, and a further four fighter-escort geschwader equipped with twin engine fighter aircraft (Fw187) – with a first-line strength of 576 machines; total first-line fighter strength – 3,264 aircraft. Five geschwader were equipped with specialised ground attack aircraft (Ju87 and Hs129), with a combined first line strength of 720 aircraft. The bomber force comprises fourteen geschwader equipped with twin-engine light and medium bombers (Ju88, Do217 and He111) and one geschwader equipped with four-engine heavy bombers (He177) with a combined first line strength of 1,620 machines. There are three transport geschwader equipped with the Ju52 plus one specialist glider-transport geschwader equipped with a mix of tow types, with a first-line strength of 432 machines. There are eight short-range tactical reconnaissance gruppen for army cooperation (Hs129 and Fw189) numbering 288 first-line machines, as well as three long range reconnaissance gruppen (Bf109, Fw187 and Do17) with a further 108 machines. The total first-line strength of Luftwaffe combat units is 6,432 aircraft.

The combat units are backed by a substantial training establishment with a full panoply of primary, basic and advanced flying training schools, conversion units, blind-flying and navigation schools, reconnaissance schools etc. The current inventory of training types exceeds 10,000 machines of all types, including reserves.

Force Modernisation/Rationalisation

In the near term the Luftwaffe will concentrate on replacing older types with more modern equipment. In the fighter category the Luftwaffe will cease to procure the Bf109 in the coming year, and the type will be phased out of first-line service in favor of the Fw190 and He100. The latter type has reached the limits of its development and will likely be phased out of production sometime in 1942. The Air Staff has authorised the Focke Wulf firm to investigate development of a high altitude version of its Fw190 design to replace the He100 on an interim basis; similarly the Fw190 will be adapted to the ground attack role. Replacement of the Fw187 is considered a priority and Heinkel has been contracted to develop a replacement (the He219). An unsolicited proposal has been received from the Bayerischen Flugzeugwerke for a twin-engine development of the basic Bf109 airframe – a proposal that is under serious consideration by the Air Staff.

Rationalisation will be quite noticeable in the bomber forces – the Dornier Do17 has already been taken out of production and displaced from first-line bomber squadrons. In the long-range reconnaissance role it will be replaced by derivatives of the Ju88 light bomber. The Heinkel He111 will go out of production during 1941, and units equipped with that type will be gradually re-equipped with the Ju88 and the Do217, or will convert to the long-range bombing role as He177 aircraft become available. Luftwaffe procurement of the Ju87 dive bomber will cease early in 1941, and existing units convert to the Henschel Hs129.

Despite the immediate need it is not expected that the Arado 232 transport aircraft will not become available in substantial numbers until well into 1942. The suggestion has been made that the Blohm und Voss firm be directed to adapt its Bv144 commercial airliner as a supplemental transport aircraft but no final decision has been reached at this time.

Of great concern to the Air Staff is the plethora of training types now used in the Luftwaffe’s flight schools – there are at least seventeen trainer types (including former service types) in the current inventory. Current production plans are focused on the Bu181 primary trainer, the Ar96 basic trainer, the Bf108 conversion trainer and the S204 aircrew trainer. It is hoped that many of the older types (Do23, Ar66, Ar68 etc) will be retired by 1942 as newer aircraft become available.

Electronic Equipment

Under the direction of Generalmajor Josef Kammhuber the national air warning network continues to grow as equipment becomes available. It is expected that new, longer-range Decimeter Telegraphy units will be deployed during 1941 and 1942 to supplement the existing Freya and Wurzburg Reise equipment. The integration with the Luftwaffe’s air interceptor units proceeds but demands the development of a proper night-fighter aircraft provided with its own D-T equipment; contracts have been let for development of centimetric D-T units capable of such employment and tests are expected to begin in 1941.

A viable air navigation system for bomber aircraft has been tested by Air Signals Detachment 100, and it is expected that this will be standardised for the Luftwaffe bomber force during 1941. Recommendations have also been made to the Air Staff for development of airborne D-T equipment capable of assisting aircraft to locate and identify their targets; however, to date, no developmental work in this area has begun.

Reaction Engines

The Defence Ministry has funded an extensive programme to investigate the development and application of reaction (“jet”) engines to aircraft employment. Heinkel-Strahltriebwerk, Bayerische Motoren Werke and Junkers Flugmotorenwerke have all been issued developmental contracts for various engines of this type. The reaction engine is seen by the Air Staff as the key to matching aircraft power requirements with mission parameters; the reaction engine shows promise of being capable of progressive upgrades at far lower development cost than the conventional internal-combustion engine and of providing high power outputs without the need for complex supercharging equipment, high-octane fuels or other special apparatus, resulting in a lower cost and – once fully developed – greater reliability for high-speed applications.

Engines under development at this time include:

HSW 109-001 – an engine using centrifugal principles, first bench tested in September 1940 with moderate success; it is expected that this aircraft will power the Hs280 design already authorised by the Defence Ministry. Airworthy units are expected to be available for test some time in the latter part of 1941.

HSW 109-002 – an engine using a combination of axial and centrifugal principles, expected to develop thrust in the 1500-3000 kilogram range when fully developed. At the present time it is projected that the first bench-test units may become available some time in 1942.

BMW 109-003 – an engine using axial-flow principles, first bench tested in the summer of 1940 with less than complete success. Significant difficulties in impeller design remain to be overcome. It is projected that an airworthy unit may become available for test sometime in 1941.

Jumo 109-004 – an engine using axial-flow principles, first bench tested late in 1940 with moderate success. The initial tests suggested that this design may prove capable of developing thrust in the 1000-2000 kilogram range when fully developed. However, it is not expected that flight-worthy units will not be available for test before late 1941 at the earliest.

In addition to the aforementioned Hs280 single-seat fighter design the Defence Ministry has issued a development contract to the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke to develop a fighter aircraft utilising two examples of the Junkers reaction engine and has identified a requirement for a twin-engine high-speed reconnaissance and bomber aircraft. Industry has been invited to submit designs to meet that requirement. While it is the most advanced of all the reaction-engine aircraft projects currently in development it is unlikely that the He280 design will begin flight testing before the autumn of 1941, an outcome that is dependent upon development of a successful engine.

Improved Aircraft Ordnance

Work on the development of improved ordnance for the Luftwaffe continues. The work of Doctor Herbert Wagner of the Henschel Flugzeugwerke in development of a wireless guided glider bomb was recently tested in December 1940 with good success against a static target. It is likely that in the spring of 1941 tests against a controlled target vessel will he carried out jointly with the Marineflieger. Work undertaken by Doctor Max Kramer at Ruhrstahl on development of a wireless-controlled armour piercing bomb has encountered a number of setbacks in the control systems and it is not likely that tests will commence before 1942.

Developmental work on air-to-ground rocket projectiles has been authorised by the Air Staff. The design parameters for such weapons include a warhead diameter of 13cm and projectile weight of 20 kg, using solid fuel boosters. It is expected that the first such test units will be available early in 1942, and it is hoped that by 1943 such weapons will be available to supplement the ordnance loads of strike aircraft.

The current generation of aircraft machineguns is reaching its limitations; the rifle-calibre MG81 has limited hitting ability and the Air Staff has indicated that it wishes to replace the MG81 with the MG151 where-ever possible. The MG151 itself is seen as inadequate as the main armament of fighter aircraft and greater reliance seems to be placed on the MG201. The Rheinmetall concern has been tasked with developing a new 30mm aircraft cannon, designated the MK108, which entered testing late in 1940. If successful, it is anticipated that the 30mm MK108 will become the standard weapon of future Luftwaffe fighter aircraft from 1942 forward.

Well written; good job.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
Developmental work on air-to-ground rocket projectiles has been authorised by the Air Staff. The design parameters for such weapons include a warhead diameter of 13cm and projectile weight of 20 kg, using solid fuel boosters. It is expected that the first such test units will be available early in 1942, and it is hoped that by 1943 such weapons will be available to supplement the ordnance loads of strike aircraft.

Interesting - I'd been considering something very similar. Haven't yet decided whether I'll use a 130mm unit or a 105mm unit. The 30mm cannon sounds like something I'm planning, too...

Good write up Bruce,

From next year or 1942 likely as not the RAF will begin trials using the 3in RP in an air-ground role.

Some points;
10,000 trainers! Could we have breakdowns of that figure? It seems rather high even if some of them are in quasi-civil use or others mothballed. Any historical figures to back that up?

Seems a rather rapid shift from piston to jet power. Hrolf had put a lot of effort into MW and GM boost systems and no doubt engines like the Jumo 222 and 223, BMW 802 and other Daimler Benz types could fill useful roles within the next generation of piston aircraft. Four jet engines for two fighters and one bomber seems a little wasteful at this time. Who can say if the jet is going to be a success at this time? Yes it offers speed at altitde but serious question marks remain over reliability, time between overhaul, engine life, blade failure, fuel consumption, lack of suitable alloys, development of said alloys etc etc.
All these doubts raise questions, certainly the piston in WW is nowhere near dead.

Where is the next generation of German planes? The He-219 and Ta-152 (which you've hinted at here) is one step in the right direction but are we going to see piston fighters like the BMW 802 powered fighter of 1941, the Ju 188/ 388, Ar 240, Me 265, He 277/ 274, Fw 191 as examples of the latter piston engined designs?
At the moment it looks like Germany is planning to jump from Fw 190 to Me 262 and Ju 88 to Ar 234.
I know you want economy over the OTL madness but I think even so some work would begin around 1941 for the piston types to fill the gap between 1944-49/ 50.

The increase of 30mm has been talked about before, still no real combat in WW to prove the 20mm useless against bigger targets. MGs are on the way out though.

Quoted

10,000 trainers! Could we have breakdowns of that figure? It seems rather high even if some of them are in quasi-civil use or others mothballed. Any historical figures to back that up?

The breakdown of the December 1940 inventory can be found over here

I've set the 1939 baseline on the best quantities I could find in German Aircraft of the Second World War by JR Smith and Anthony Kay and German Aircraft Industry and Production 1933-45 by Ferenc Vajda and Peter Dancey, and based subsequent production on the latter, which has extensive data on actual German aircraft production. Of course the "Trainer" category covers all the surviving operational types like the Heinkel 51 which have been demoted.

I fear that people do not realize what it takes to keep a large air force current with its pilot cadre - which is why in addition to the operational orbat I've also done the Luftwaffe training orbat. If you examine the gross production numbers for WW2 you will find that Britain, the US, Russia and Germany churned out trainers by the thousand; one of Japan's historical shortcomings was its failure to build up pilot cadres before the war and its slowness to increase pilot training during the war.

Quoted

Seems a rather rapid shift from piston to jet power.

It will be rapid if developments keep up to schedule. The dates cited are rather middle or best-case estimates, and test failures could delay progress.

Quoted

Hrolf had put a lot of effort into MW and GM boost systems and no doubt engines like the Jumo 222 and 223, BMW 802 and other Daimler Benz types could fill useful roles within the next generation of piston aircraft.

Yes, piston engines will form part of the development program over the near term - but there is no wartime need to focus on the "right now" at the expense of the future. Hence the Air Staff is looking towards the jet engine for the middle rather than the near term, recognizing that any development effort is two or three years down the road.

Quoted

are we going to see piston fighters like the BMW 802 powered fighter of 1941, the Ju 188/ 388, Ar 240, Me 265, He 277/ 274, Fw 191 as examples of the latter piston engined designs?

In a nutshell - probably not. The four-engined He177 that Hrolf developed *is* the He277/274. I believe that between continuing development of existing types (Fw190, Ju88) and the newer types touched upon (He219, maybe the Bf109Z) the gap can be bridged between now and the arrival of the jet era. This is, of course, subject to modification based upon the state of aviation around the world; the need to develop a stop-gap could emerge should threats appear.

Quoted

lack of suitable alloys, development of said alloys etc etc.

Well, I think I can dispose of the question of suitable alloys for the first generation of jet engines rather quickly.

Hiduminium first developed in 1927 and pioneered for a variety of aircraft and automotive applications is an unlikely industrial secret in Wesworld.

As attested here and here .

Without wartime embargos and the general development of trade in Wesworld the availability of such metals ought not to be a significant issue. There are a number of metallurgical firms cited in the German encyclopedia involved in researching metal alloys and their application to aviation. I therefore do not see 'exotic metals' as an issue.

True, but Nimonic and Iconel are British patents and British developed as was Hiduminium within the R. R. series of alloys developed by Rolls Royce and High Duty Alloys Ltd. (this was a long process and I'm not saying Britain is anywhere near the end of the road). While perhaps not a secret it seems likely that the 'real stuff' would be obtainable only from High Duty Alloys. They produced the ingots of raw alloy, manufacturing included the initial forging or casting processes. Finish machining would be undertaken by the customer. Therefore its open to question how open the access to this alloy is to foreign users without buying it direct is open to question.

Cromadur alloy (12% chromium, 18% manganese, and 70% iron) was developed by Krupp but inferior to the above alloys although it was capable of being welded easily and so was easier to work with. Tinadur alloy was about 6% titanium 18% nickel and 12% chromium. German engines were just not as robust as Allied engines (British engines were better than anything the Americans had managed in the early 40s). It's hard to find many German patented alloys in this period, certainly Germany in WW has greater access to raw materials and there is reason to suppose that given greater access to raw materials it may develop its own Nimonic and Iconel type alloys, but that takes time. I'm not saying that in WW Britain is adverse to sharing its knowledge with Germany though.

Waving a magic wand and saying "oh yes its not an issue becuase I've got X amount of firms" seems a flawed arguement. While I agree in WW its possible for Germany to follow the British path there is a lack of proof OTL that it intended to and that Germany's firms would have gained all the answers anyway.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood

It's hard to find many German patented alloys in this period, certainly Germany in WW has greater access to raw materials and there is reason to suppose that given greater access to raw materials it may develop its own Nimonic and Iconel type alloys, but that takes time.

Waving a magic wand and saying "oh yes its not an issue becuase I've got X amount of firms" seems a flawed arguement. While I agree in WW its possible for Germany to follow the British path there is a lack of proof OTL that it intended to and that Germany's firms would have gained all the answers anyway.

To claim that because there is no OTL proof of Germany's OTL intentions, WW Germany cannot conduct a reasonable line of metallurgical research is equally flawed. The capability do to the research is there and documented; the research is being performed. And it will make its appearance in due time.

It's like the oft-claimed exclusiveness of British cavity magnetrons. This is not so: Hans Erich Hollman filed one of the first patents on the multi-cavity magnetron in Germany on November 29, 1935; as documented here.

Was OTL Germany capable of pursuing that line of development? Certainly it was. Did it choose to do so? Not until it was too late. Is Wesworld Germany's line of research constrained by the wartime assumptions of the Nazi regime? I think not.

Therefore Germany will develop centimetric radars, perhaps at a slower pace than Britain - which has already pushed the limits of that particular envelope of technology. But to claim exclusivity is not supported by the facts.

You miss the point. I said yes its possible in WW for Germany to follow that path given that she had freer access to raw ores etc but your comment "Well, I think I can dispose of the question of suitable alloys for the first generation of jet engines rather quickly" seemed to scoot over the whole issue by linking to a couple of adverts and saying the whole world knows about it and Germany has masses of foundaries and labs so it will easily copy or replicate whatever everyone else develops.

There is no doubt German engineers will devise new alloys but at this point in time IC there is no way of knowing for sure what kinds of alloys will be successful and how they will stand up to use and how easy they are to make and use during construction. Even so Germany is ploughing ahead with four jet programmes with success obviously planned. In general I just feel across the board there is too much crystal ball gazing going on and everyone gearing up to introduce the first jets ASAP and missing out the later piston types as they won't be needed.

You're not constrained to any development path you wish to choose, its just that I want to be sure what path you're following and why and that it's feasible. I'm not picking holes but looking at the overall factors, in general I feel that jet tech as well as radar tech is complex stuff and that generally we haven't begun to scratch the surface and we have a long ways to go before we even get to the J-34 and Nene type development stage.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
...but your comment "Well, I think I can dispose of the question of suitable alloys for the first generation of jet engines rather quickly" seemed to scoot over the whole issue by linking to a couple of adverts.

If you'll pardon my semi-informed opinion, here... Bruce has, in my view, made the correct decision to use high-performance alloys from the start - because Wesworld Germany lacks the two things that resulted in the historically underperforming turbojet engines. First, Germany is not under economic blockade, resulting in the scarcity of materials. Second, Germany is NOT attempting to design jet engines to be made in captured factories by unskilled or semi-skilled slave labourers. Even by 1941, the German enginemakers were forced to use ersatz materials which resulted in severely limited engine lifespan, as everyone knows. To some extent, the German designers kept those ever-present shortage in mind and developed engines which still worked; they even designed engines which could be built by unskilled or semi-skilled workers.

Without those material shortages and the need for slave-labour assembly, there's no logical foundation for me to presume that the historical German difficulties could (or should) be repeated in Wesworld: the rationale that resulted in the historical engines just flat out doesn't exist. I'm aware that some people dispute the difference wartime shortages would make to the German turbojet program, but without any doubt, engine life and maintenance will be improved. While the response might perhaps have been clipped, Bruce has been laying the foundation for this move since the beginning of his tenure in Germany. He's done his research and shown his work, and I feel it's a bit unseemly to hold him to a different standard than everyone else here.

My only quibble with his response is in his choice of labels for the upcoming engines: the BMW 003 and the Jumo 004, and presumably the others as well are not first-generation jet engines, but second-generation. The earlier HeS 1 and the flying HeS 3b are the German first-generation turbojets. Of course, this is just my personal opinion.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Seems a rather rapid shift from piston to jet power. Hrolf had put a lot of effort into MW and GM boost systems and no doubt engines like the Jumo 222 and 223, BMW 802 and other Daimler Benz types could fill useful roles within the next generation of piston aircraft. Four jet engines for two fighters and one bomber seems a little wasteful at this time. Who can say if the jet is going to be a success at this time? Yes it offers speed at altitde but serious question marks remain over reliability, time between overhaul, engine life, blade failure, fuel consumption, lack of suitable alloys, development of said alloys etc etc..

*dons French player hat*

While the piston engine is by no means dead, engineers in France see the trends in aircraft design. In the last ten years, horsepower for fighters has jumped from around, oh, 600+ hp to around 1,500hp on average, or more. Accompanying that increase in horsepower is an increase in weight. While operating efficiency has improved, the weight increases (often exponentially) with the horsepower. At the same time, we start to see very real issues with just how much we can milk out of the piston engine: while we can build bigger and more powerful piston engines for fighters and bombers, those engines will inevitably need more and more weight for incremental power increases, to the detriment of the aircraft. Advances like MW and GM boost are merely patches for the growth problem. The turbojet, to the French, is one of the potential escape hatches for this scale of diminishing returns, and it's the reason why four different French aeronautical companies (Gnome-Rhone, Hispano-Suiza, Turbomeca, and Rateau) are conducting research into turbojet engines or turbojet-related technologies, while a dozen others work in related fields. While there is a degree of "keeping up with the Joneses" (Italians and Germans) to the French program, that affects the urgency of the programs, but not their raison d'etre.

I don't doubt that my own reasons outlined above also hold true for Germany - and every other country with a well-established air industry.

The issue isn't really whether Germany develops its own alloys or buys them or whatever, the point is in 1941 OTL and WWTF where we are now IC (more or less) the problems I outlined haven't even begun to fully surface. Apart from one Heinkel testbed no other jets have yet flown. An yet already many nations have plans to produce numerous jet engines and aircraft to replace what they have in service now in around three/ four years time.

Even in mid-1942 turbine blade failure in British engines was still alarmingly frequent and the use of the correct alloys was still developing. Not until 1944 or so had Britain begun to get decent results. Now Germany should be able to acheive much the same results by 1944 WWTF, that is Jumo -004 and BMW -003 engines with service life times way ahead of what was acheived OTL. In fact technically Germany will be ahead of Britain in axial-jet engines by a couple of years. America too will probably develop its own superalloys, Japan and France may well get access to some much quicker than OTL. Russia too has its own metal insdustry capable of superalloys.

I know little of French developments prior to 1945 OTL but certainly the USSR was developing jet engines from the late 1930s. There is no doubt the piston engine is reaching the end of development (in some respects the turboprop might offer more between 1945-50 in WW) and that jet engines offer a new powerplant option (especially for smaller aircraft) that could surpass anything a piston can do. Although the RR Crecy is perhaps the ultimate piston engine yet to be made...

My concern is that we (I mean everyone here, not just Bruce) can't help using hindsight, jets have been flying for just one sim year, engines are still largely testbeds on the bench, the first flight of the Whittle jet is still 2Q away. While the Air Ministries of the world are preparing specifications and intentions of using jets in fighters and light bombers there is a long way to go before the jet is proved in flight and we ignore the final piston types.
Although the +3 on pistons and +0 on jets will probably make a more level playing field as the jets of 1944 WWTF will be replacing the piston aircraft of 1944 introduced in 41/42 WWTF. Piston aircraft of 1944 will be of 1947 tech by that time.

Also the aircraft designers of 1941 have only the Volta Conference of a few years back to start developing airframes that can exploit the new speeds jets could offer. Generally cabin pressurisation and airframe technology hasn't really gotten to the stage where we could fully make use of the jet engine. Generally early jet aircraft are pretty makeshift and conventional. I know Bruce is avoiding the more wacky and impractical Luft 46 stuff (rightly so) but even so Germany is probably the best placed nation in the world to acheive advanced jet aircraft in the longer-term.

The USSR in the Cold War or China today didn't face economic blockade either and yet still had problems producing high temperature materials.

Where did high temperature materials come from in OTL? Only the UK. It's very well saying that Hidnuminium was invented in the 1920s but it's still just a high temperature aluminium alloy. All countries were using high temperature stainless steels in the late 30s, the UK included. These are fine in terms of mechanical strength and temperature, but have lifetime problems due to creep (essentially the turbine blades get longer and eventually impinge on the casing). The advance came in the UK alone with nickel superalloys like Nimonic and Inconel. Why didn't the German jet industry develop such materials in the early 1940s when they had lots of funding, easy access to materials, and no requirement to design for wartime production?

Materials weren't the worst problem of the early jet engines. Combustion was a much greater problem that is often overlooked as this required an order of magnitude increase in combustion intensity. In the UK this was solved by around 1942 and there was suddenly an explosion of jet engine types.

Mostly development requires time. Even then, there are still quite some issues with most of the early jet engines. The RR Nene is the first that really works well.

With regards to piston engines etc. the problem is really in producing enough thrust from the propeller at the higher speeds we are now approaching. Although engine power is pretty constant, the thrust from the prop is rapidly decreasing as efficiency tails off at high speeds. The solution is to have a jet system; an inlet to slow down the flow, and an exhaust to create a high velocity flow. It doesn't necessarily have to be a turbine engine.

Campini's system uses a ducted fan with reheat to produce thrust. It's not as elegant as a turbojet but produces more thrust at high speeds than a propeller system. Can probably get up to about 2.5:1 thrust to weight ratio which compares well with early jets but not able to significantly improve on this. Specific fuel consumption is significantly less than turbojets though. Even so, it's only a temporary solution given the complexity of the system. Hence, a few years with a Campini type engine with it likely replaced with a proper turbojet in the late 1940s.

Hi Bruce,

that has been an interesting read and I think there are a few questions that need to be raised.

On technology you are already challenged by others, and I am curious to see the results.

My main concern is the stated numerical strength of the Luftwaffe. About 6500 combat aircraft (including transports) and 10000+ trainers is much too high, methinks. I have already checked some of my own books as well as some internet sources over the past few days and will challenge you on that once my post is prepared.

Prior to that I will raise two other questions:
1.) You list the Bf109 among your long range reconnaissance gruppen. Can you please explain how a 700km range fighter can be considered "long range"? What is her role in those units?

2.) What is the design history of your alternate He177? I found nothing in your encyclopedia to support the idea why Germany "suddenly" builds a four-engine heavy bomber with four seperated engines. It does not fit the historical development (which I do not expect to see in WesWorld anyway) nor does it fit what I know about the German Luftwaffe in WesWorld - or what other types in service indicate.

As you indicate that you will be posting more on total numbers, I will refrain from speaking to that issue at this time, and await the post you indicate you are composing.

As to development history of the He177, it begins here, where it is first mention by my predecessor as being in development in 1935; its progress is noted throughout that thread.

As you will see, my predecessor placed the He177 into production in 1939, as documented here.

My predecessor again refers to the role of the He177 [URL=My predecessor referred again to the He177 here,]here, [/URL] and he specifically identified it as a four-engine aircraft here.


In the baseline strength of the Luftwaffe posted by my predecessor, cited here

he included

Recon aircraft
Bf-109 - 60
Fw-187 - 60

As I have not yet discovered any particular description of the Bf109 reconnaissance aircraft my predecessor intended, I must presume that it is an aircraft akin to the RAF’s reconnaissance Spitfires – fitted with cameras and operating in a high speed photo-reconnaissance role. As it is not an army cooperation and liaison type, I have assigned it to Command level Fernaufklarungsgruppen (Long-range reconnaissance groups); it is the most logical determination I can make based on the information left me by my predecessor.

So the Bf109 scout is just a leftover from Hrolf?

Thanks for linking me to the He177 information. It settles most of my issues with the type in WesWorld. The development phase is quite long and explains why there is no predecessor. Do you consider that plane a result of General Wevers priorities (supports Douhet's theory of strategical bombing)? Does Wever even exist in WW Germany? What are your plans regarding balance of strategical versus tactical bombers?

The Ju90S is no longer in development? It was no longer mentioned, right?

If you can offer information/thoughts on the Luftwaffe numerical strength as posted, please do so. It probably saves me from a lot of work and settles the issues I have before I even need to raise them - just like with the He177.

I have kept the recce Bf109 in small-scale production (together with the recce Fw187) merely on a scale to keep pace with attrition, which I do account for in my production plans.

The Ju90 development program appeared to have been terminated by Hrolf (though I admit it is not entirely clear to me), and certainly bomber developments of the Ju90 were ended when I decided to put the He177 into production. The civil Ju390 airliner probably owes something to the work done on the Ju90.

I cannot speculate on the role intended by my predecessor and the theoretical basis for his development of the type. I look upon the He177 as a strategic deterrent weapon and it will eventually replace the He111 - though not on a one-for-one basis.

OTL General Wever died in 1935 or 1936 - either date is well before my tenure playing Germany. Whether he played a formative role in the emerging Luftwaffe is unknown to me, as I have not found reference to him and Hrolf left no notes when he departed a year ago. My presumption is that he did exist, contributed to the Luftwaffe's strategic bombing doctrine and died in a manner similar to the historical, leaving, perhaps, more disciples with a greater voice.

In response to your inquiry regarding numbers, I began with the January 1939 baseline created by Hrolf, which I have already pointed out.

From that point I based my 1939 and 1940 extrapolation principally on the data contained in:

German Aircraft Industry and Production, 1933-1945, by Ferenc A. Vajda and Peter Dancey, which cites extensive RLM data on production plans and aircraft actually produced. Of course, annual attrition rates are far less than historical due to the lack of actual combat. I believe that I have kept my monthly production figures to the conservative side based upon the data contained in Vajda and Dancey.

For older or legacy aircraft types and trainers, I have relied upon:

German Aircraft of the Second World War, by JR Smith and Anthony Hay, published by Putnam.

For the size of the German aircraft industry and its development, I have relied upon:

Arming The Luftwaffe, by Edward L. Homze, including the tabular information on the capital, work force and work space of the individual German firms comprising the OTL German aircraft industry as of 1938.

Great, thanks. That is going to be interesting. Number crunching at its best. Xo) There are so many source on that issue and the data varies a lot...

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Great, thanks. That is going to be interesting. Number crunching at its best. Xo) There are so many source on that issue and the data varies a lot...

Yes, data quoted varies much in time and in interpretation. Insofar as possible I have preferred data cited in hard cover sources to data found on the Internet, as the former at least has a source citation; the latter may or may not.

Same here. In one case, I even wrote a request for source to one webmaster yesterday because he has very detailed and interesting data on his size but gives no sources....

Even Wikipedia, which tries very hard to source its information, has limitations. Several of us have found articles that cite something as "Wesworld" as a source for data contained in Wikipedia articles - or at least the English-language Wikipedia.

Try to compare english and german Wiki on Luftwaffe strength....

English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe_s…raft_strengths_(1940-1945)

German: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe_(Wehrmacht)