WesWorld

Enough of this farce.

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
...considering you're the one who wrote them coming before the assembly, i'm sorely tempted to put my Mod hat on and void this entire thread, as it makes No Damn Sense™

Mod hat: Seconded.

Yes is does. It had a purpose. Is up to the League to see their case or dismiss it out of hand. Already a motion was presented by two monks. Their case was tabled until their credentials could be determined. With Tibet been recognized as part of China by the assembly. I just add a couple of lines to the initial entry.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Yes is does. It had a purpose. Is up to the League to see their case or dismiss it out of hand. Already a motion was presented by two monks. Their case was tabled until their credentials could be determined. With Tibet been recognized as part of China by the assembly. I just add a couple of lines to the initial entry.

OOC: I believe the issue at this point is -
Private citizens not just wander in off the street and demand intervention in nations.

IF they represent no recognized nation, - which appears to be the case,
AND are not operating under/sponsored by the diplomatic creditentials of a LoN member,
THEN how did two uncredentialed individuals get past security, arrange to get themselves placed on the agenda, and dupe the LoN into letting them make a motion before the Security Council? After all, shouldn't only members of the Security Council be allowed to make motions?

So..it appears this thread simply shouldn't have been posted as the sequence of events doesn't make sense. Which would seem to be what Shin Ra and Brockpine are indicating.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Yes is does. It had a purpose. Is up to the League to see their case or dismiss it out of hand. Already a motion was presented by two monks. Their case was tabled until their credentials could be determined. With Tibet been recognized as part of China by the assembly. I just add a couple of lines to the initial entry.

1. IC. Motion was tabled awaiting confirmation of their credentials - which you, Perdy, failed to provide, despite writing their proposal.
2. IC. Three countries, and *only* three - stated their belief that Tibet was an autonomous region of China. That leaves approximately forty-eight countries left to comment. You promptly tooted your own horn in your news posts announcing that "everybody" said Tibet was part of China.
3. IC. If I read past published Chinese news right... the CHINESE recognize Tibet as an independent sovereign nation.
4. OOC: You're just meandering on through the LON folder trying to stir the pot, then making pronouncements regarding a non-player country (ostensibly Tibet, who's status as NPC or part of China is unclear at the present time).

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
So..it appears this thread simply shouldn't have been posted as the sequence of events doesn't make sense. Which would seem to be what Shin Ra and Brockpaine are indicating.

Spot on, Kirk.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
Yes is does. It had a purpose. Is up to the League to see their case or dismiss it out of hand. Already a motion was presented by two monks. Their case was tabled until their credentials could be determined. With Tibet been recognized as part of China by the assembly. I just add a couple of lines to the initial entry.

Kirk hit the major points, but to summarize;

1) Tibet is not a recognized independant state from what research into the period several of us have conducted (and indeed, to the current day). This matter is probably somewhat confused, as Tibet is denoted seperately on the Big Map, although said map is known to be dated on a modern CIA map. Regardless;
2) Tibet is not a member of the League of Nations. Furthermore;
3) The League of Nations is not a Town Hall style confab. It is run under some manner of parlimentary procedure, with discussion and debate scheduled and run in a deliberate and careful manner.

Ergo, while it makes for the start of a good joke (Two monks walk into the League of Nations...), it is not a viable way to author something involving the League of Nations, or the UN, be it OTL or WW.

In order for these two monks to have any access to the LoN, without being representatives of a government that is a member of the league, they would have to be brought before the assembly by an existing member. As you are the one who wrote this peice, it is assumed the Monks were brought in by India.

If this is not the case, and no other nation brought them and their concerns before the league this thread simply cannot exist.

End of Line.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
OOC: Actually Persia. But I proved my point. Now I know why some people just quit. Rules are some but not for everyone. Later.

What point? And what rules are you referring to? I'm unaware of any other player attempting to usurp control of an NPC power and have it address the league or other international body. Nor am I aware of another player attempting to have unrecognized and noncredited individuals address the Leage or other international body without support and presentation from a duly accredited member of said body.

Thanks Brock for the new info

July 14th 1940

Two Buddhist Monks address the League sponsored by Persia.

First monk spoke:
"Gentlemen. As you are all well aware, the forces of the Chinese Empire entered our provinces of Amdo and Kham utilizing the excuse of eliminating “warlord” activity in the region. That was close to five years ago. Our nation is a nation of peace and lacks a real army. We fear for what will be the next step of our neighbors to the East. Our leader is young but his advisors, us included in that group, consider only a League supported initiative will help us. We have already contacted privately our neighbors to the South and they are amicable in supporting the option we present to the League now. "

Second Monk:

"The legitimately recognized government of Tibet now states our request for European neutral forces to help our friends to the South to contain further Chinese expansion into our nation. As ought to be clear to all the nations present at this time, the situation is clearly untenable, as we cannot further ignore that provinces of our nation covering as much ground as France are now under the de-facto control of a foreign nation. I ask the members of the League what response has been the custom of European nations throughout recorded history. Would it not be viewed - with good reason - as a legitimate causus belli? Therefore, we request an official League sanction as the League of Nations Tibet Field Force, or LONTFF.

"After private discussions with our neighbor to the South they have agreed to participate and would like to propose a plan of operations, in conjunction with any European Nation that is willing to participate. This proposed plan has been tentatively approved by our nation, awaiting the blessing of the League.”

"Our Neighbor to the South have pledged to help our nation to create a modern Army and to help protect the borders of our nation of further expansion. Several of the governments in the region have agreed to assist with financial considerations, particularly relating to supply of the LONTFF.”


OOC: China recognizes Tibet as an independent nation according to Brock's research of old Chinese posts.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
3. IC. If I read past published Chinese news right... the CHINESE recognize Tibet as an independent sovereign nation.

To back this up:

Link

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
12. April
...

The spokesman also said, that a chinese delegation will travel soon to Lhasa, the capital of Tibet, to discuss the cooperation between both contries.

China recognizes Tibet as a country with a capital city of Lhasa.

Link

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
13. January
The Tibetan government asked China to support the fight against the smuggling in the border area. For this reason, parts of the chinese provincial guard are stationed on the Tibetan side of the border.

China recognizes that Tibet has a government capable of inviting Chinese military intervention.

Link

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
03.May
In Lhasa, there is a pro-China demonstration. The population of Tibet wishes to participate on the rapid development of the neighbouring country. China helped already on the construction of the Lhasa railway, and it supports Tibet now in its anti-smuggling program.

China recognizes Tibet as a "neighboring country".

Link

Quoted

Originally posted by parador
There is a skirmish between the troops of the warlord Zhang Xueliang and Chinese troops near the town of Chamdo. According
to initial reports, a Chinese patrol out of the ambush have been shelled. More than 30 Chinese soldiers have been killed.
The "rebels" are escaped in the mountains. Because of that incident, the governments of Tibet and China have decided to send
more troops in the region.

...governments of Tibet and China...

Oh, incidentally, Britain commented that Tibet has a government:
Link

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
The Government of Britain hopes the Government of Tibet has not been leaned on in any way to accept Chinese military actions and that once the warlord is captured that Chinese troops respect the agreement.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
"We request that the League members affirm the formation of the LONTFF. Please vote aye if you affirm this proposal, or nay if you oppose the formation of this unit."

At this point, the League would debate and discuss the issue, and probably seek clarification from the involved parties. At some point, the chair of the assembly would call for a vote; For certain, nonacreddited Tibetan monks have no power or business calling for a vote for a body they are not a part of, and no vote would be called for without sufficient deliberation.

Perdy; for the sake of OOC communication, how did the monks get to the LoN. Maybe Bahrat doesn't know, but you as a player ought to.


AND: Why on earth would monks think that going to Persia would be any help? Why on earth would the monks know what Persia, for that matter?

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
"We request that the League members affirm the formation of the LONTFF. Please vote aye if you affirm this proposal, or nay if you oppose the formation of this unit."

At this point, the League would debate and discuss the issue, and probably seek clarification from the involved parties. At some point, the chair of the assembly would call for a vote; For certain, nonacreddited Tibetan monks have no power or business calling for a vote for a body they are not a part of, and no vote would be called for without sufficient deliberation.

Deleted the last paragraph.

OOC: discussion shall be held until the status of Tibet is firmly decided. Please go discuss that here. This thread will be locked until such a time as a firm decision has been reached regarding Tibet's status.