WesWorld

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
1955, to be precise.

It is probably a blessing in disguise that the ship requires such a long build time.

Given its draft, I think that much dredging will be required in Kure harbor before she can be worked out of the yard with any level of safety.

Similar concerns might apply to other Japanese harbors.

Dredges anyone?

"Launch!"

*Ship runs aground*

"Well, at least she can't sink in such shallow water..."

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
"Launch!"

*Ship runs aground*

"Well, at least she can't sink in such shallow water..."

She might get off the ways without grounding, as she'd be riding high in the water. That is where the sail effect might come into play.

Quoted

"Well, at least she can't sink in such shallow water..."

That way the ship will truly be unsinkable.

Messing around with altering the WW Shokaku picture, I noticed that the Hiyo sim needed to be fine-tuned a bit (a few more AA guns) and noticed I used 900 feet as length instead of 905...


Hiyo, Japan Carrier laid down 1940

Displacement:
47,000 t light; 48,485 t standard; 53,691 t normal; 57,855 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(941.12 ft / 905.00 ft) x 108.00 ft x (35.00 / 37.05 ft)
(286.85 m / 275.84 m) x 32.92 m x (10.67 / 11.29 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 40.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 450 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1940 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
2 raised mounts
16 - 4.13" / 105 mm 50.0 cal guns - 34.00lbs / 15.42kg shells, 750 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1940 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward
4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck aft
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 39.0 cal guns - 2.01lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
3 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
2 raised mounts
1 x 2 row octuple mount on sides, forward deck centre
1 double raised mount
72 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1,500 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
24 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 2,500 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
Weight of broadside 1,093 lbs / 496 kg
Main Torpedoes
320 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m torpedoes - 0.960 t each, 307.067 t total
In 80 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes (*)
Main DC/AS Mortars
80 - 1,763.70 lbs / 800.00 kg Depth Charges + 320 reloads - 314.946 t total
in Stern depth charge racks (**)
2nd DC/AS Mortars
80 - 1,102.31 lbs / 500.00 kg Depth Charges + 640 reloads - 354.314 t total
in Stern depth charge racks (***)

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 590.00 ft / 179.83 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
Main Belt inclined 10.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.75" / 70 mm 590.00 ft / 179.83 m 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 108.00 ft / 32.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.25" / 83 mm
Forecastle: 3.25" / 83 mm Quarter deck: 3.25" / 83 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.75" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 185,718 shp / 138,546 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,370 tons

Complement:
1,763 - 2,292

Cost:
£14.726 million / $58.905 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,520 tons, 2.8%
- Guns: 300 tons, 0.6%
- Weapons: 1,220 tons, 2.3%
Armour: 8,459 tons, 15.8%
- Belts: 1,787 tons, 3.3%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,921 tons, 3.6%
- Armament: 364 tons, 0.7%
- Armour Deck: 4,303 tons, 8.0%
- Conning Tower: 84 tons, 0.2%
Machinery: 4,966 tons, 9.2%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,056 tons, 22.5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,690 tons, 12.5%
Miscellaneous weights: 20,000 tons, 37.3%
- Hull below water: 1,200 tons
- Hull above water: 8,500 tons
- On freeboard deck: 8,500 tons
- Above deck: 1,800 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
100,389 lbs / 45,536 Kg = 1,606.2 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 25.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 17.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.549 / 0.559
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.38 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 34.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 15.00%, 45.30 ft / 13.81 m, 24.30 ft / 7.41 m
- Forward deck: 40.00%, 24.30 ft / 7.41 m, 24.30 ft / 7.41 m
- Aft deck: 30.00%, 24.30 ft / 7.41 m, 24.30 ft / 7.41 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%, 24.30 ft / 7.41 m, 24.30 ft / 7.41 m
- Average freeboard: 25.56 ft / 7.79 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 53.4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.9%
Waterplane Area: 70,969 Square feet or 6,593 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 136%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 688 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily




(*) Extra 450mm torpedoes for the 80 Strike Aicraft aboard the carrier.
(**) Extra 800 kg AP bombs for the 80 Strike Aircraft aboard the carrier (based on the 410mm shells).
(***) Extra 500 kg bombs for the 80 Strike Aircraft aboard the carrier.
130 Aircraft: 16900 tons
30 spare planes: 750 tons
Flag facilities: 100 tons
Extras: 2250 tons
Total: 20000 tons

Silly question, but why the US 5"/38 turrets? Why not the Type 98 twin 3" mount or Type 89 5" twin?

Cause I have "borrowed" some other things as well?

Looking in the first book of "Random Japanese Warship details" from Tamiya, none of the 12.7 cm turrets really fit with my image of the carriers (especially not the mounts like on the Yamato). It's too much of a hassle for me to try and mess around with other pieces (cleaning up, resizing and adjusting brightness) and ruin how it looks now, while it pretty much looks the way I imagine it to be right now.

And why the 3" mount when I am looking at 5"?

Oddly enough, looking around in the encyclopedia, with the battleships, I have the 5" gun listed as 40 calibers and the carriers listed as 38... should be the same gun though (40 calibers long) so I need to adjust the carrier sims...

Quoted

Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
You'll be laughing until it turns up in your backyard, after which you'll need to change your underwear.

Kurchatov will have worked things out long before then.

Is it time to begin development of Project 627?



Yes, you read that right, that tubes designed to fire a 1,550 mm torpedo.....

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
Is it time to begin development of Project 627?



Yes, you read that right, that tubes designed to fire a 1,550 mm torpedo.....

"I know, I know. It's a Russian thing. When we're about to do something stupid, we like to catalog the full extent of our stupidity for future reference." - Susan Ivanova

Funny that about an hour before that post of yours, I sent that pic to DF telling him that he should go for something like that instead of those SOT subs he has now in order to take out the Panama Canal...

... WHOOPS! Should not have said that.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
It is probably a blessing in disguise that the ship requires such a long build time.

Given its draft, I think that much dredging will be required in Kure harbor before she can be worked out of the yard with any level of safety.

Similar concerns might apply to other Japanese harbors.

Dredges anyone?

Never mind harbours, some of the bigger VLCCs and VLOCs need so much water that some of the world's sea lanes aren't deep enough. This isn't so bad with the Straits of Malacca, since it's sediment, but the Dover Strait bottoms out on bedrock at a least depth of (IIRC) 21 metres.

Doing some calculations, Dredgers have plenty of time to do some dredging. More than 6 years.

source: http://www.dredgers.nl/
... only 6 years off with the date... only a few things given. The rest I just filled in.



D1, Japan Dredger laid down 1940

Displacement:
472 t light; 482 t standard; 486 t normal; 489 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
90.97 ft / 90.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 5.25 ft (normal load)
27.73 m / 27.43 m x 12.19 m x 1.60 m

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 26 shp / 20 Kw = 5.00 kts
Range 1,000nm at 5.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7 tons

Complement:
51 - 67

Cost:
£0.100 million / $0.399 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0%
Machinery: 1 tons, 0.1%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 106 tons, 21.7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 14 tons, 2.8%
Miscellaneous weights: 366 tons, 75.3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
503 lbs / 228 Kg = 4.7 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.900
Length to Beam Ratio: 2.25 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 29 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
- Forecastle (20%): 3.10 ft / 0.94 m
- Mid (50%): 3.10 ft / 0.94 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 3.10 ft / 0.94 m
- Stern: 4.75 ft / 1.45 m
- Average freeboard: 3.38 ft / 1.03 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 41.4%
Waterplane Area: 3,573 Square feet or 332 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 140 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.70
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

And Japan will now be able to claim the largest fleet of dredges in service!

I have a feeling I will soon see a Mexican version of the dredger with some big gun mounted on it.

Hiyo looks pretty good overall, certainly large fleet carriers are coming earlier in WW than OTL with at least six nations building them now.

Won't comment on the super BB as its probably a front for some other dasterdly evil super plan!

The 260t from Mexico for their secret project are not in the report.

Yeah, forgot that, but I could assume that it takes a while for it to get produced, prepared for shipment, loaded, transported, unloaded, curse at officials for slapping a heavy import tax on it, etc. So I will put that in the Q2 report.