WesWorld

So Peru's situation is as follows ...

Ecuador (that oddly is Peru's ally here) is silent, Brazil doesn't give a damn about Peru and Bolivia was cut in two by Chile while some "genius" decided to alienate the only historical ally Peru had against Chile (at least we got Tacna back), Argentina might had been a possible ally for Peru but it is already on Chile's boat

So Peru basically stands alone against a neighbor that beats it in everything ... and thats not counting Colombia.

In times like this I'm happy I can't sim ships because I would have an aneurysm just trying to put Peru in a position it can resist Chile.

Peru has now two options a) pray Chile don't try to conquer Peru or b) get into Chile's good side (yeah it would be a miracle)

Quoted from "Doorcf"

So Peru's situation is as follows ...

Ecuador (that oddly is Peru's ally here) is silent, Brazil doesn't give a damn about Peru and Bolivia was cut in two by Chile while some "genius" decided to alienate the only historical ally Peru had against Chile (at least we got Tacna back), Argentina might had been a possible ally for Peru but it is already on Chile's boat.

Don't forget that Mexico hates Peru because... eh... actually, I'm not really sure why. Probably because Peru's an ally of Iberia, and Mexico irrationally hates all allies of Iberia.

Quoted from "Doorcf"

Peru has now two options a) pray Chile don't try to conquer Peru or b) get into Chile's good side (yeah it would be a miracle)

I'll offer this up out-of-character: at the moment, Chile is basically in an isolationist mood. They've fought two wars in the last fifteen years, both of them forced on them by foreign aggression (first by Bolivia attacking them, and then by Peru attacking their ally Colombia). Their Brazilian and Argentine allies had to face off about ten years ago with the SAE, which means there was a third war that they narrowly avoided.

Chile regards the current Peruvian government as, shall we say "90% Responsible." The current government managed to end the Peruvian Civil War and repaired relationships so far as they could with Colombia, Bolivia, and Chile. That's entirely to Chile's liking. The one major worry is that Peru has made quite a lot of major equipment purchases following the Civil War: five new cruisers, an aircraft carrier, Fiat G.55 fighters, a bunch of new Astore bombers, etc. While the current government may not be inclined to use them, Chile doesn't see Peru's recent history being very... stable, with one major assassination/coup and one short civil war just in the last decade. What does Chile do when the current "90% Responsible" ruling group is overthrown and replaced with a more militaristic government - perhaps one that desires to reclaim Arica and Tarapaca by force?

To make an allusion, Chile sees Peru as a neighbor who is pretty nice most of the time; but every Friday night they get rip-roaring drunk and starts swinging at anybody who happens to be in sight, sets off fireworks in the wee hours of the morning, and leaves piles of beer bottles and burned-out cars on the lawn to devalue the neighborhood. (Chile's opinion of Bolivia is... much worse at the moment.)

So of your two options... Chile isn't going try to conquer Peru. Heh, Chile didn't even try to demand Tacna back as reparations for attacking them in 1937 (and even went farther than that, talking Colombia out of demanding reparations). Also, if Chile attacked Peru, Iberia is still treaty-bound to assist Peru, while Chile's allies are not obliged to do help if Chile starts something. As to your second option, Peru may not be on Chile's good side... but they're not yet on their bad side, either.

Mexico hates Peru?

WHAT?! THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE!

well I still don't count Mexico because the US is still over them

Quoted from "Doorcf"

Mexico hates Peru?

WHAT?! THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE!

Eyup.

You can take comfort in the fact that Mexico also apparently hates Chile.

OK i'm now talking about external influences in the Peruvian army

In Real Life the Primary influence even before WW1 was the French influence. Peru greatly liked the french assistance prefering it even over the german an italian missions that briefly replaced it. In fact many peruvian officers in the same era 1930s finished their studies in the École Militaire in Paris and the organization of the army and doctrine was based in the french model. The uniforms and artillery were also based in french models.


Now here in Wesworld France was replaced by Germany. This duality have some effects. Does Peru still follows german models? or is going to change of doctrine? Also do peruvian officers go to german military schools as RL peruvian officers went to french schools? How much influence and of which kind germany have is Peru is now unknown and how close the relationship is, is also unknown.

Doorcf, use the same numbers than Chile for the Peruvian Army.
50 000 => conscrits
80 000 => first reserve
100 000 => second reserve
500 000 max

--
Note than the actual governement is quiet & the Army is a defensive position vs neighbors, especialy Chile.
Modern materials in 1944-1945 are just made to replace old & obsolete materials.


Jef

Quoted from "Jefgte"

Doorcf, use the same numbers than Chile for the Peruvian Army.
50 000 => conscrits
80 000 => first reserve
100 000 => second reserve
500 000 max

If one were to presume a Peruvian population of about 8 million, conscripting an annual intake of three recruits per thousand population and keeping them with the colors for two years would yield an army with 48,000 conscripts or so on hand at any point in time. A somewhat more onerous burden than Chile's situation, but not intolerably so.

As to Doorcf's wider question of influence, I cannot say that there has been much active German influence on the Peruvian military - at least on my watch. The small training mission is there to instruct Peruvian personnel on the latest purchased equipment, and once that is done, they will depart. As a formal ally of Chile, it would be unusual for Germany to send a permanent military mission to Peru; if there has been one in the past, I have no knowledge of it. That said, Peruvian students would be quite welcome at German military schools if they wish to apply; more welcome would be Peruvian students of science, engineering and medicine, for which there are scholarship programs available.

Speaking as a player, I suspect that Italian or Iberian influence might actually be more pronounced, given Peru's long and continuing membership in the AEGIS alliance. However, I do not think that the matter has ever been settled one way or another due to the successive changes in who has been playing Peru. This might be the opportunity to settle such matters.

Quoted from "BruceDuncan"

Speaking as a player, I suspect that Italian or Iberian influence might actually be more pronounced, given Peru's long and continuing membership in the AEGIS alliance. However, I do not think that the matter has ever been settled one way or another due to the successive changes in who has been playing Peru. This might be the opportunity to settle such matters.

Honestly, I agree. While Peru's purchased a lot of German equipment, the way Peru's military is formed looks very Italian-inspired. For instance, those Infantry Brigades we discussed earlier are very nearly clones of the standard Italian Infantry Division during the late 1930s. Similarly, the 1930s Peruvian Mobile Brigade looks very similar to period Italian armoured / mechanized forces of the same period. And since Iberia's a long-time ally of Peru, I think it's reasonable to assume a certain amount of influence on the military front there, too.

So it is Italian-Iberian Influence ... I like it

I think most of the influence would be Italian as they deal with the deserts and mountains while Iberia complements in jungle warfare (Ecuador)

I think Peruvian officers go to either Italy and Iberia (Italy is more popular) as first options and then some to Germany (the dudes in the armored brigades mostly)

Quoted from "Doorcf"

So it is Italian-Iberian Influence ... I like it

I think most of the influence would be Italian as they deal with the deserts and mountains while Iberia complements in jungle warfare (Ecuador)

I think Peruvian officers go to either Italy and Iberia (Italy is more popular) as first options and then some to Germany (the dudes in the armored brigades mostly)

The Theresianische Militärakademie Wiener Neustadt, the former Austrian military academy, has a program for foreign students. Graduates would thereafter be able to attend German branch of service schools.

Quoted from "Brockpaine"

Quoted from "Doorcf"

Mexico hates Peru?

WHAT?! THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE!

Eyup.

You can take comfort in the fact that Mexico also apparently hates Chile.

Apparently that is because Chiles allied to France, also hated by Mexico because....well....just because.......

I do have to echo what Brock touched on earlier that, following the end of hostility's between Peru and Columbia/Chile (and Atlantis in a limited capacity), Chile was the leading voice in convincing Colombia to drop any territorial demands. It would also stem from Atlantis and Iberia working behind the scenes to stabilize the region, neither of them really wanted a war in their backyards that could easily spiral into a war between AEGIS and FAR (now the GA). That said I seem to have missed the part where Peru has since tried to mend relations with Columbia so I'd suspect relations would still be fairly frosty (even if attempts were made), Leticia would be a much more secure city from a military perspective.

Hey Wes, good to see you on again! We've missed you...

Now thinking about the artillery of the Peruvian Army

New arty is needed but it will takle time to get enough ... so upgrading the WW1 vintage guns is needed

To my knowlenge Peru could

1.- give longer barrels
2.- give the guns pneumatic wheels
3.- possibly something else like more modern munitions

also could Peru build their own artillery? Since SIMA build the guns of the peruvian Ships I think SIMA could also build land arty

Quoted from "Doorcf"

Since SIMA build the guns of the peruvian Ships I think SIMA could also build land arty

Well, does Peru manufacture their own naval artillery? If they do, it's probably a pretty recent development, and limited to only a few of the new ships. Almost everything currently in service dating to... eh, 1941 or earlier probably has foreign-manufactured guns, and only the stuff Rocky simmed during his command of Peru could have had locally-produced guns.

Rocky, any comments?

I can probably put together a quick list of where the Peruvian Navy's artillery is sourced from.

Since the Almirante Deganio class is being buildt since 1944 I thought that peru build its own guns

The only pieces that may possibly have been built in Peru are the later 120mm guns (which are almost certainly a foreign design), and the 37mm and 20mm guns, which may be foreign designs licensed for local production. I'm 98% certain that Peru didn't build its own artillery prior to 1941 when Rocky took over; whether or not he started sourcing artillery locally is for him to say. There's definitely not been any local design of naval guns, though. Of the South American powers, I think only Chile and Argentina have actually designed their own naval artillery. Brazil builds some of their own, but it's mostly foreign-designed at the very least.

• 305mm guns: Used on Villar. From India.
  
• 254mm guns: Used on Grau. From Iberia.
  
• 203mm guns: Used on Callao. From Germany or Iberia.
  
• 150mm guns: Used on Cajamarca-class and Ancash-class (triple turrets), Independencia-class (twin mounts), Capitan Valdes-class (single mounts). Almost definitely from Germany.
  
• 120mm guns: Used on Grau, Villar, Teniente Vasquez II-class, Callao, Libertad, Almirante Deganio-class. Source unknown, but highly probable Indian, Iberian, or Italian export design.
  
• 105mm guns: Used on Ancon-class, Cajamarca-class, Ancash-class. Almost definitely from Germany.
  
• 88mm guns: Used on Capitan Valdes-class, Independencia-class, B-10-class, S-9 class. Almost definitely from Germany, but possibly from South Africa.
  
• 37mm guns: Used on almost all classes except Capitan Valdes and S9. Uncertain source, but possibly German, Nordish, or South African.
  
• 25mm guns: Used on Capitan Valdes, Ancon, Independencia, Teniente Vasquez II, LibertadAlmirante Deganio, Grau. Almost definitely from India.
  
• 20mm guns: Used on Vasquez II, Libertad, Deganio, Grau, Cajamarca, Callao, Ancash, B-10, S-9, B-1, S-7, Villar. Source unknown, but most likely Iberian.

well, this is interesting

well SIMA could build the guns and if didn't started with Rocky it could start with Jef

also what about the WW1 guns modernization? Peru isn't goping to completely replace them anytime soon

I didn't give a lot of thought to Peruvian armament manufacture during my brief tenure.

There were two substantial building programs - the four light cruisers, which included a German-built unit and, I'd assume, German guns. That some of the ships were built locally doesn't mean the guns were.

The Great Destroyer Binge included a lot of...what was it, 120mm guns? I could see these being locally built. With the navy buying up dozens alone, with replacement barrels and parts being needed over time, there might be enough business to support local manufacture. If the story line required Iberian support for 120mm manufacture, my Iberian self would likely be agreeable.

Smaller guns could be locally manufactured, too. There's a long business relationship with Bharat so I probably wouldn't object to Peru manufacturing a knock-off 105 or the like.

I won't disagree that Villar's 305mm are installed in a Bharat-built ship, but Bharat never used the gun before or since on their own stuff. Seems unlikely they'd be developed just for the one sale, so they might be SAE- or Italian-derived.

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

I won't disagree that Villar's 305mm are installed in a Bharat-built ship, but Bharat never used the gun before or since on their own stuff. Seems unlikely they'd be developed just for the one sale, so they might be SAE- or Italian-derived.

The original Villar was intended to be a class of two - so perhaps India expected better and then got shorted on the orders?

Probably not Italian; the SAE might be possible, though. While you were out, Perdy did intend to build some 305mm ships for India, but I guess he never got around to it.

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

The Great Destroyer Binge included a lot of...what was it, 120mm guns? I could see these being locally built. With the navy buying up dozens alone, with replacement barrels and parts being needed over time, there might be enough business to support local manufacture.

Since 1941, there've been eight 6x120mm ships and one 8x120mm armed ship - so a total of 56x120mm guns in 28 twin turrets. That's a pretty sizeable quantity, so I agree there might be sufficient business for local manufacture. The earliest Peruvian ship with 120mm is Grau - Iberian-built - and so the 1934-dated 120mm guns probably originated from Iberia. (Just a guess.)

The only other powers I know of that manufacture 120mm guns are Britain (no longer in production), France (no longer in production), and Chile (exports to Brazil). I'd have to hunt around to see if there's anyone else...

Quoted from "Doorcf"

1.- give longer barrels
2.- give the guns pneumatic wheels
3.- possibly something else like more modern munitions

Not sure #1 is really useful. If I understand the design principles correctly, then lengthening the barrels by too much will raise the working pressures inside the barrel, increasing the chances of accidents. It might depend on the gun and the scope of the change.

#2 is highly likely, as you could design a new carriage with pneumatic tires and truck hitches. Alternatively, you could use something called a Train Rouleur.