You are not logged in.

Dear visitor, welcome to WesWorld. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

101

Wednesday, July 26th 2006, 2:27pm

That looks much better for a 1931-1932 design. The "tunnel drive" is still open to question, I'd suspect that a torpedo hit on either of the skegs would still wreck or entangle the near-side propellor, but the above the water line hull looks much more like a 1930s ship.

102

Wednesday, July 26th 2006, 2:33pm

Quoted

The problem was that the engines weren't made by Fiat, the Isotta-Fraschini company became obsessed with air-cooled inlines (Delta and Zeta), having only 87-oct fuel, lack of more exotic elements, rubbers and alloys because of imposed sanctions. And the Regia Aeronautica fixation on radial engines. As a result the RA flying boats and MAS had more powerful and more reliable engines than the newer fighters. Interesting comparison is the Isotta-Fraschini L121 developed from the Asso 750. It was around the same dimensions as the Merlin, weighed 100kg less and had similar power. 960hp vs. 1000hp. It was only when 100-oct and 150-oct fuel became available for GB (not available to Italy because of sanctions) that the Merlin began to produce more power, up to 2050hp continuous with the 100+series, or the maximum 2450hp from an engine modified in Derby in 1944.


Most of these issues (other than the fascination with radial engines, and the political hold of a single engine company) applied to Germany, yet Germany didn't have the same problem with engine stagnation. The DB-60x, Jumo 213, and BMW-801's were competitive with their Allied counterparts (though often a bit behind, because of the limitations of available fuel and light alloys), whereas the Italian engines were not.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

  • Send private message

103

Wednesday, July 26th 2006, 2:43pm

New drawing - new SS file?

I still wonder how you will sim such a hull form (realistic or not) with SS. Why have you chosen the hull form (raised forecastleetc.) given in your SS file? I´m not talking BC here even though the calculation of the latter is still open to debate given your ships unusual hull form.

The lower hangar looks rather cramped and lacking height. 1,5 decks is about ~3,8m - hardly enough.

Her bow is very slim but nevertheless on the side view your drawign shows decks running through it. Is this realistic?

What reference are you using to simulate engine room, boiler room, magazin, secondary machinery room sizes etc.? I like the fact that you put that much work into your drawings showing it is possible to but all the stuff into the hull but so far there´s no way to "judge" if sizes chosen are realistic.

104

Wednesday, July 26th 2006, 2:53pm

Quoted

New drawing - new SS file?


There should be a few alterations, but fairly minor I think.

Quoted

The lower hangar looks rather cramped and lacking height. 1,5 decks is about ~3,8m - hardly enough.


Hmm, I drew it as 5.00m high, the red armour line distorts the view a bit.

Quoted

Her bow is very slim but nevertheless on the side view your drawign shows decks running through it. Is this realistic?


No, good catch there. There shouldn't be a great deal to change however.

Quoted

What reference are you using to simulate engine room, boiler room, magazin, secondary machinery room sizes etc.? I like the fact that you put that much work into your drawings showing it is possible to but all the stuff into the hull but so far there´s no way to "judge" if sizes chosen are realistic.


Pictures of other ships. I have lots of sections of French carriers and Italian ships. I have a nice autocad plan of Malta as well

From Nelson to Vanguard


105

Wednesday, July 26th 2006, 3:01pm

Quoted

Most of these issues (other than the fascination with radial engines, and the political hold of a single engine company) to Germany, yet Germany didn't have the same problem with engine stagnation. The DB-60x, Jumo 213, and BMW-801's were competitive with their Allied counterparts (though often a bit behind, because of the limitations of available fuel and light alloys), whereas the Italian engines were not.


Never underestimate the selling power of Fiat. This is the company that succeeded to sell CR.42 biplane fighters to the German occupiers in 1943

Generally just refusing to stick with one design as well. The Fiat A.38 was meant to the be engine used to power the 5 series fighters. It started development in 1937-39 as an upright V16 and changed to an inverted V16 with contra props. It took a year before the engine was ready for bench testing, then the delay from changing the layout. Then after this they relocated the supercharger which meant another delay. And lack of money.

106

Wednesday, July 26th 2006, 7:43pm

So why doesn't Fiat have that kind of political clout in Wesworld?

107

Wednesday, July 26th 2006, 7:56pm

Quoted

So why doesn't Fiat have that kind of political clout in Wesworld?


I don't want it to. And no facisti government. Larger presence of OTO, Breda, Caproni and Savoia-Marchetti.

108

Sunday, July 30th 2006, 9:41pm

Back to first page;

Adjusted building plan. Only 2xlight cruisers

The Destroyers have been slightly modified.



They traded the 37mm mountings aft for a 135/45 duple mounting to give more ASuW capability.

109

Sunday, July 30th 2006, 10:47pm

A 135mm? The picture seems to show something smaller than the bow mountings, but a 135mm twin should be the same size or larger. Also, a 135mm would move the destroyers up into the cruiser class....

110

Sunday, July 30th 2006, 11:07pm

Not necessarily. If the Italians think 135mm is what is needed for a destroyer, then it's still a destroyer. Cruisers are capship escorts and raiders; frankly I wouldn't arm a ship of that nature with anything less than 6" guns.

111

Sunday, July 30th 2006, 11:22pm

Treaty wise if I'm not mistaken 135mm would make her a cruiser.

Quoted

V. DESTROYER

Surface vessels of war the standard displacement of which exceeds 600 tons (610 metric tons) and does not exceed 2,000 tons (2,032 metric tons), whose largest guns do not exceed the calibre of 5.1 inches (130 mm) calibre , and which is not so constructed or reconstructed that aircraft may land thereon, and which is designed or rebuilt with a maximum speed greater than 24 knots, divided into two categories, as follows:

Sub-category (a): Destroyers displacing not more than 2,000 tons

(2,032 metric tons) standard displacement

Sub-category (b): Destroyers displacing not more than 1,600 tons

(1,626 metric tons) standard displacement

112

Sunday, July 30th 2006, 11:29pm

Right, I forgot about the treaty.

113

Monday, July 31st 2006, 12:44am

Easy enough to do when your not part of it!

114

Monday, July 31st 2006, 1:35am

Chile said it was a Joke.

That fleet is just racking up treaty violations. The Spirit of the Treaty is dead in Italy...only lip service to the letter of the treaty.

115

Monday, July 31st 2006, 9:13am

Their lip service is turning more to cheek.

116

Monday, July 31st 2006, 11:13am

Before being quite so quick to condemn it might have been useful to look at the previous design which also mounts 135mm guns, and this which says;

Quoted

135mm Weapons


Note: 135mm weapons are lined to 130mm due to CT

45-calibre M1917
Used on : Morosini, Aquila, Capitani Romani, Panthera, Elba, Umbria and post 1922 Destroyers
Details : 32kg HE, 28kg MTF (AA), MV of 850m/s, 12rpgpm, 19000m range, 40° elevation (80° elevation Aquila AA mounts)
Mountings : Enclosed duple mounts, Shielded Duple mounts
Notes : Experience showed that a more powerful weapon than the 100/47 was needed for destroyers. This evolved into the 135/45 first mounted on the Panthera Class of Esploratori. Considered to be a success due to the heavy-hitting shell, low dispersion and long barrel life. Shielded mounts can elevate to 30° whilst the enclosed to 40°. Horizontal sliding breech block combined with shell hoists give a 12rpgpm rate of fire. The 28kg MTF shell was developed to ease fatigue during prolonged firing.


Enclosed Duple Mount

Open Duple mount

As can be seen, the open mounting is slightly smaller. Theres no great difference on the drawing. I just couldn't fit an enclosed mounting there, and it looked wrong when I did.

117

Monday, July 31st 2006, 11:31am

Sooooo the DD's are getting built under cruiser tonnage as per the 135mm placing them in that catagory?

118

Monday, July 31st 2006, 11:43am

No, they are getting built as destroyers (type b) because their guns are 130mm diameter.

119

Monday, July 31st 2006, 12:08pm

Missed the part about the gun liners. Still, seems rather wastefull to design a 135mm then line it down to 130mm. Wouldn't a 130mm without the gun liner be just as good? Why would 5mm make such a difference?

120

Monday, July 31st 2006, 12:12pm

I question whether a 2.5mm thick liner is a possible.