You are not logged in.

Dear visitor, welcome to WesWorld. If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

81

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 6:01pm

What about Ping Chau? :D

I would have gone for Waglan. Maybe because of the 'W' in there. :)

82

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 8:23pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
The Mexican Representative would like to point out the extremely inflammatory case of Italian Warships operating in the Gulf of Mexico...


You actually mean the North Atlantic. To which Canada responded with everything bar an outright declaration of war.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
"The esteemed Chinese delegate makes grand accusations of the alleged lack of League neutrality, and asserts this body is a puppet of the Great Powers, but such accusations are only being voiced because China finds our neutrality is not in China's favor.


It's pretty obvious that the League isn't neutral as it's just PCs, most of which are party to various anti-Satsuma treaties. In real life there'd be a lot more small countries who'd see things differently (or be paid to see things differently)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Aug 10th 2010, 8:34pm)


83

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 9:26pm

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
So I guess is okay if the Bharati fleet do their next exercise three miles of Perth or from what Australia calls International Waters and do some heavy weapons exercises. Of course unannounced. We dont need to, is international waters.


Canada isn't excersizing in international waters. They're excersizing in their own territory


OOC: Not correct !! Hong Kong is leased to Great Britain. So "own" isn't the right word, because the "owner" is China, the Lessee is Great Britain and to be generously we could say the Commonwealth.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "parador" (Aug 10th 2010, 9:30pm)


84

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 9:30pm

Quoted

Originally posted by parador

Quoted

Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
So I guess is okay if the Bharati fleet do their next exercise three miles of Perth or from what Australia calls International Waters and do some heavy weapons exercises. Of course unannounced. We dont need to, is international waters.


Canada isn't excersizing in international waters. They're excersizing in their own territory


OOC: Not correct !! Hong Kong is leased from Great Britain. So "own" isn't the right word, because the "owner" is China, the Lessee is Great Britain and to be generously we could say the Commonwealth.

OOC: can you outline the terms of the lease, please?

85

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 9:35pm

Its a bit more complicated, only the "New territories" are leased while Hong kong and parts of Kowloon are ceded "in perpetuity"

86

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 9:40pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Its a bit more complicated, only the "New territories" are leased while Hong kong and parts of Kowloon are ceded "in perpetuity"

*Scratches head*

Umkay... *Wikis!*

87

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 9:47pm

At this point the British Ambassador to the LoN, Sir Geoffrey Archibald Lonsdale walked with his stick to take the podium.

[An AU figure. Sir Geoffrey Lonsdale studied at Oxford, took a degree in Classical Studies before studying law. Called to the Bar in early 1914 he volunteered for the Army and at the Battle of the Somme was severely wounded in the right leg. To this day he still uses a stick. Invalided in 1916 he joined the diplomatic corps and served on the British Versailles staff and became Ambassador to Coldmere in 1925, Yugoslavia 1927, Cabinet Secretary to the Foreign Minister 1932-34, Ambassador to USA in 1937 before taking up current post. He is a formibable lawyer and statesman and his hobbies include grouse shooting and equstrian sports.]

He cleared his throat and took a sip of water before he scanned the delgates and began to talk.

"The actions of the Chinese and Indian delegates have been somewhat disturbing to most nations here. The classic procedure in a trial is to try the evidence before a conviction is made. Here it seems the sentace is up for vote before the jury has sat down. China has not produced one shred of evidence of the Canadian Government's intent to cause hostility or embarrasment to China.

The facts are that a heavy cruiser and a small sqaudron of destroyers used the uninhabited islands of the Soko Islands well inside the Territory of Hong Kong for gunnery practice. Legally these waters belong to the Crown. The Government of the Crown is entitled to do whatever it wishes within the reasonble limits of international law without the censure of any other nation. British territory touches many other nations, Iberia, Italy, Bharat, Netherlands etc but have we ever heard of any nation crying agression when our fleet operates from Malta, or Port Said? Does Italy feel duty bound to warn us of excercises within its own waters off Malta? Does France feel it cannot excercise along the Channel Coast?

Legally this assembly and all nations have no right of dictat on another's territory and territorial waters. Were it so we would demand similar measures against China in the vincinity of Hong Kong. Why right at this moment the bulk of the Chinese Southern Fleet is anchored not very far from Hong Kong. Do we complain about this? No. Have we any wish to? No. Why? Because what China does in its own waters is there business and the British Government knows that legally it cannot justify even asking for such concessions.

And yet China repeatedly makes calls on several European nations to trim back their sovreignty with nothing in prospect other than the threat of war if we refuse.

I won't dwell on the Paracels and Hainan and other recent issues with China as the delegates are well aware of what has been going on these past months as China illegally attempts to interefere with other nations rights. Instead I will give evidence of the background of this sad episode caused by poor statesmanship of the Chinese.

A few weeks ago a message was delivered to our ambassador in Hong Kong. The preamble told of a desire to create a Chinese Neutral Zone in its territorial waters. A move to be appluded, yet the preamble read, "to ensure a more friendly and close cooperation between our nations, China submit the following agreement. This is not a provocation, but the foundation for the prevention of any future discussions." Indeed preventing disussion would seem to us most disconcerting. This body would not have much to do then! [some delegates laugh]

Having read the proposed terms in co-operation with the Government of Iberia, which including denying Hong Kong and Macau to access to international waters, we offered the following terms jointly which we felt would strengthen the peace in the region and benefit both sides. I will read our proposals and the Chinese counter proposals received a few days ago.

I
China will designate its coastal waters as a Neutral Zone. Waters outside the Three Mile Limit are international waters free for the use of all nations of the world.
The neutrality patrol of His Chinese Majesty Navy will constantly monitor foreign warships within the Three Mile Neutral Zone.
British Hong Kong Territorial Waters is defined as the waters around the islands of the British Hong Kong Protectorate as defined on the map attached to this document.
Iberian Macau Territorial Waters is defined the water around the coasts of the islands of the Iberian Macau Mandate as defined on the map attached to this document.
The map attached to this document represents the affected portion of this zone in regards to this agreement.

China reduced its ilegal claim to international waters and settled for this legal version.

II
Great Britain agrees to notify the Chinese Navy of any Royal Navy [any vessel flying the White Ensign of the Royal Navy of Great Britain] fleet transfers to and from Hong Kong in advance to China in writing. The minimum time allowed is that the Note of Transfer should be delivered to the Chinese Navy Headquarters before the arrival/ departure of the said warships. In return, China agrees to accept all transfers without conditions or interference. China agrees to accept any transfer without conditions or interference if Great Britain is involved in a war with a third party.
Exceptions to this rule are;
1) Daily movements of Royal Navy vessels already notified as being stationed in Hong Kong
2) Emergency movements for humanitarian or rescue missions along the Chinese coast and in International Waters
3) Daily movements of Royal Navy vessels attached to the joint Piracy Patrol with Chinese Navy warships

Iberia agrees to notify the Chinese Navy of any Navy of the Iberian Federation [any vessel flying the Ensign of the Navy of the Iberian Federation] fleet transfers to and from Macau in advance to China in writing. The minimum time allowed is that the Note of Transfer should be delivered to the Chinese Navy Headquarters before the arrival/ departure of the said warships. In return, China agrees to accept any transfer without conditions or interference. China agrees to accept any transfer without conditions or interference if Iberia is involved in a war with a third party.
Exceptions to this rule are;
4) Daily movements of Iberian Navy vessels already notified as being stationed in Macau
5) Emergency movements for humanitarian or rescue missions along the Chinese coast and in International Waters

All other nations who currently access Hong Kong and Macau are exempt from the provisions of this Article.

China added its own response, Article IIa.
Also every other nation, whether allied or not, has to announce the transfer to and from Hong Kong and to and from Macau in advance to China in
writing via the british or iberian embassy. The minimum time allowed is that the Note of Transfer should be delivered to the Chinese Navy Headquarters before the arrival/ departure of the said warships. In return, China agrees to accept the transfer. But if China feels threatened then it has the right to limit the number of the vessels. A complete refusal is not possible !!!
If GB or Iberia won't send the so called transfer note to China, it is considered as a breach of the greement.

Well this is basically a blank cheque for China to control all naval activity in its waters by all nations represented here. A rather bold statement to make to cry opression by others when seeking to limits all nations of this world free and proper access to harbours of their choice.

I continue;
III
If Great Britain is at war with an ally of China, but not at war with China herself (or vice versa), both nations are committed to preserving the status quo. Neither nation would deploy additional ships to the area but the transit of ships, for example to use repair and dockside facilities is permitted.

If Iberia is at war with an ally of China, but not at war with China herself (or vice versa), both nations are committed to preserving the status quo. Neither nation would deploy additional ships to the area but the transit of ships, for example to use repair and dockside facilities is permitted.

IV
Civilian traffic of all nations is unaffected by Article II and no signatory may affect or attempt to disrupt civilian shipping in any way during peacetime or war in the South China Sea or along the Neutral Zone.

V
China agrees to notify the Royal Navy Headquarters in Hong Kong of any Chinese Navy [any vessel flying the Chinese Naval Ensign or CMSCG Ensign] fleet movements across British Hong Kong Territorial Waters and any Chinese Navy/ CMSCG vessel wishing to enter Hong Kong harbour facilities without exceptions. The Royal Navy retains the right to refuse entry.

China accepted all these points

VI
If any signatory breaks Article II or V then the case must be proven in a court of law in the League of Nations and if found guilty by an international panel a fine may be imposed on the offending nation in scale with the size and flagrancy of the breach.

China altered this to; If any signatory breaks Article II or V then the other side has the right to determine an arbitrator, who serves as a mediator.
The arbitrator may be challenged once by the participating nations OR Given the geographic location it would be conceivable to call the U.S. or Germany as arbitrator.
We would accept this but whether either would be sufficently neutral to support China is open to question.

VII
China hereby freely makes a statement to remind Great Britain that it honours all the articles of the 1898 Agreement on the Lease of Hong Kong and that until December 31 1997 that Hong Kong is fully under the legal jurisdiction of His Majesty’s Government in London and that all said territory and coastal waters are British Territory and are to be respected as such. China also freely makes a statement not to interfere in any political way in the affairs of Hong Kong.

China hereby freely makes a statement to remind Iberia that it honours all the articles of the Agreement on the Lease of Macau and that Macau is fully under the legal jurisdiction of the Iberian Government and that all said territory and coastal waters are Iberian Territory and are to be respected as such. China also freely makes a statement not to interfere in any political way in the affairs of Macau.

China was willing to agree to this to affirm its apparent goodwill towards Britain and Iberia. However in our view China's actions do not quite sqaure with this view.

VIII
China pledges that until the end of this agreement on December 31 1997 that it will not seek to limit or inhibit British Army or Royal Air Force forces stationed in Hong Kong for the purposes of self defence of the British Hong Kong Protectorate. Great Britain pledges only to station such forces as necessary for self defence excepting temporary transfers of troops and equipment to other areas of the Empire. If Great Britain is at war with an ally of China, but not at war with China herself (or vice versa), both nations are committed to preserving the status quo. Great Britain would not deploy additional forces permanently but temporary transfers of troops and equipment would be allowed.

China pledges that until the end of this agreement on December 31 1997 that it will not seek to limit or inhibit Iberian Army of the Federation or Iberian Air Force forces stationed in Macau for the purposes of self defence of the Iberian Macau Mandate. Iberia pledges only to station such forces as necessary for self defence excepting temporary transfers of troops and equipment to other areas of the Empire. If Iberia is at war with an ally of China, but not at war with China herself (or vice versa), both nations are committed to preserving the status quo. Iberia would not deploy additional forces permanently but temporary transfers of troops and equipment would be allowed.

All other nations who currently access Hong Kong and Macau are exempt from the provisions of this Article.

China rejeted this entire Article out of hand. In effect they want the right to dictate what Britain and Iberia does legally in its own legal territory.

IX
China pledges to create a fifty mile demilitarised zone along the Chinese side of the land borders with Hong Kong and Macau, inside which no Chinese [or allies of] Military forces may be stationed other than civilian border guards. No artillery or aircraft are to be stationed within the demilitarised zone. No fortifications or military airfields may be built within the demilitarised zone and existing fortifications and military airfields must be dismantled. All coastal artillery with calibres over 150mm facing Hong Kong and Macau must be dismantled. No heavy or strategic bombers (defined as land-based bombers with more than two engines and/or a range in excess of 1000 miles and/or a bombload of over 2,000kgs) are to be based in the Province of Guangdong. Great Britain and Iberia also pledge not to station equivalent bombers in Hong Kong and Macau.

China rejected this and instead offered; All three nations (China, Iberia and GB) agreed to create a non-military zone on BOTH sides of the border. That means, that inside this non-military zone every fortification, equal chinese, iberian or british, has to be dismantled. No bombers, equal heavy or light, are to be based in Hong Kong and Macau. Also a negotiated set number of troops, equipment and fighter aircrafts in each place necessary to the defense of the cities only. No other nation's forces will be permanently allowed to be based and their stay will be for announced military exercises only that will last no longer than three months - that will include tanks, ships and aircrafts. Article 2 is, however, also still in force.
The stationing of chinese military forces outside the non-military zone, is not the content of the agreement.

We had attempted to create a buffer zone that would allow us to decrease our numbers of defending troops. As logically we only defend the landward border with China in case they attack. If they were not sat on the border we would feel safer even though we all know Hong Kong could not last for long in a seige. We offered to remove strategic bombers to free the populations of all the cities on both sides from the spectre of mass bombing. Instead China wants to de-militarise Hong Kong and Macau making them impossible to defend so they could invade if they wished at any time and restrict our rights to self defence. The notion a tiny vulnerable city like Hong kong could be a realistic staging ground for an invasion of China is laughable. Many war veterans here would agree. China it seems is paranoid and intent on removing other nations rights.

X
Great Britain, Iberia and China jointly undertake to settle any future differences in Foreign Policy by diplomatic means and both nations pledge to preserve the current status quo in the region and peaceful co-existence.
Valid until December 31 1997

Reasonable article you might think, lasts until 1997 when the territories are handed back. China though altered this proposal to read; the agreement will be in force until Macau and Hong Kong will given back to China. Somewhat implying that that both would be given back before the legal termination of the tenancy of both Hong Kong and Macau.

I open the floor to questions."

88

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 10:06pm

Dong Seng Fen stands up and applauds to his British colleague.

"Well spoken. Such a wonderful bedtime story I have not heard for a long time.


China is a bit surprised.

If i understand your words right, in your eyes China is a bastard. Not trustable.
Only warmongering members of the military and warmongering government.

But isn't it a little bit surprising that YOUR government sends the following message to the government of China ?

Quoted


Most Secret Memo passed to Chinese Ambassador in London by hand by courier.

Dear Ambassador,

The recent communication with your government has given rise to the belief that perhaps China is worried about its future position in the world and concerned about war in the Far East.

The recent communication said "if GB is at war with a SATSUMA nation and China complies with its treaty obligations, then there is also war between Britain and China, so we stood here before a small problem."
The key word here is if.
This implies that China may not seek to aid its ally in time of war. It implies perhaps that your government might wish to leave Satsuma at some point in the future and establish itself alone in world with worthy friends.

Another quote "I think the preservation of the status quo would be a mutually acceptable solution."
The British Government would also think so, in fact if China ever decided to leave Satsuma then Britain would be committed to enforcing a status quo and opening its arms more widely in regards to trade and military support if China needed it.

The creation of a neutral zone and looking towards future policies makes us aware you may be thinking of leaving Satsuma or at least distancing itself from your allies in wartime. Would we be correct in thinking that and would your government be able to discuss this?



A very interesting part is "......if China ever decided to leave Satsuma then Britain would be committed to enforcing a status quo and opening its arms more widely in regards to trade and military support if China needed it...."

For a government that say it's counterpart is war-mongering and not trustworthy government, a very strange attitude. Those very untrustworthy and warmongering government then received with arms wide open. And why ??
Of course only IF China leaves the SATSUMA-alliance. Well, what happens if China is refusing and just stands by his word ?
Then Great Britain shows his true face and tries to put China in an unjust light.



After this he went to the chinese embassy, to discuss further steps with his government....

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "parador" (Aug 10th 2010, 11:50pm)


89

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 10:42pm

OOC: At least I know now how the Japanese felt in the WNT, their mail been read was really dishonest and at the time were the goodguys doingthe cheating.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "perdedor99" (Aug 10th 2010, 10:43pm)


90

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 10:45pm

Huh?

91

Tuesday, August 10th 2010, 11:04pm

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
OOC: At least I know now how the Japanese felt in the WNT, their mail been read was really dishonest and at the time were the goodguys doingthe cheating.


Who's reading who's mail now?

92

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 12:31am

Did the Chinese just leave the floor as well?

93

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 12:33am

Looks like, but only temporarily.

94

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 12:39am

I'm still trying to figure out who that 'mail' comment is being directed at. Also, what it's trying to reference.

95

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 12:51am

I'm going to assume it referes to Britains negotiations with China and subsequent revealing of said negotiations to the rest of the league.

Then again I could be entirely wrong on that.

96

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 2:25am

Russian delegate Ambassador Pavel Anatoleavich Karpov

Notes "Russian Federation Government votes against proposed censure of Canadian government, noting that Chinese government alerted military forces when Northern Fleet arrived unannounced in Petropavlovsk, almost a thousand nautical miles from Chinese waters.

I advise Chinese government to take a few deep breaths as they await arrival of several cases of Smirnoff's RF government have sent them in hopes of getting them to relax a bit.

97

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 2:32am

RE: Russian delegate Ambassador Pavel Anatoleavich Karpov

Quoted

Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov

I advise Chinese government to take a few deep breaths as they await arrival of several cases of Smirnoff's RF government have sent them in hopes of getting them to relax a bit.


OOC: I take some. :D

98

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 2:33am

Persia votes aye. :rolleyes:

99

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 2:42am

Are we still using the same composition for the Council of Twenty?

100

Wednesday, August 11th 2010, 2:45am

I think it was been voted in the floor, not the assembly. I doubt a vote of censure would be a case worthy enough for the Council of Twenty.