WesWorld

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Originally posted by Hood
One word sums up this fighter. Sweet.

Any pictures for us to gaze at? From the descriptons it looks a beauty.

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[SIZE=4]Nord Normandie[/SIZE]
The Nord Normandie is a long-distant transport designed to carry cargo and paratroops; it is a result of the struggles the French suffered with cargo aircraft during the Rif-Atlas War in 1937-38. Existing transports proved highly unsatisfactory (and in some cases downright unsafe) particularly for paratroop operations, and were insufficient in quantity; an immediate request for new aircraft was made. Requirements included the capability for rough-field operation (such as the Sahara), tricycle gear to keep the aircraft level during cargo loading and unloading, and the capability to drop paratroopers without undue risk. Design started at Nord in 1938, and although a prototype was prepared by the end of 1940, acceptance did not occur immediately as flight trials resulted in a number of alterations which delayed construction.

[SIZE=3]Specifications[/SIZE]
Crew: 4 (pilot, copilot/navigator, radio operator, flight engineer)
Capacity: 42 paratroopers or 7,500kg (16,534.6 lbs) of cargo
Length: 86 ft 1 in (26.25m)
Wingspan: 113 ft 8 in (34.65m)
Height: 24 ft (7.315m)
Wing Area: 1,545 ft² (143.5 m²)
Empty Weight: 37,478.6 lb (17,000 kg)
Max Takeoff Weight: 60,000 lb (27,215 kg)
Powerplant: 4 × Gnome-Rhone 14R, 1,650hp each, with 4-blade propellers

[SIZE=3]Performance[/SIZE]
Max Speed: 248.5 mph (400 km/h)
Cruise Speed: 186.4 mph (300 km/h)
Range: 2,982.6 mi (4,800km) at 6,000m
Service Ceiling: 25,000 ft (7,600 m)
Rate of Climb: 21.3 ft/s (6.5 m/s)
Max Wingloading: 38.8 lb/ft²

[SIZE=3]Armament[/SIZE]
- 1 × 20 mm in dorsal hatch
- 1 × 13mm MGs in nose

[SIZE=3]Special Notes[/SIZE]
- Tricycle landing gear
- Rear clamshell doors permit loading of light vehicles on the ground (doors cannot be opened in flight, paratroops exit through rear side-facing doors)

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[SIZE=4]Bloch MB.970 Transatlantique[/SIZE]
The MB.970 Transatlantique was previewed in late 1940, and a rough mockup was presented at the Paris Air Show. The Transatlantique's design was optimized to carry a minimum of eighty passengers in a pressurized cabin nonstop from Paris to Cleito, or nonstop from Cleito to New York. Bloch pushed for the Transatlantique to live up to its name, aiming for the capability for nonstop Paris-to-New York service, with the goal of completely replacing airships on that route by 1941. The long-range requirement led to the selection of Clerget aero-diesel engines for better fuel efficiency, although both regular inlines and radials were also proposed.

[SIZE=3]General characteristics[/SIZE]
Crew: 4
Capacity: 82 passengers minimum
Length: 34.66 m (111 ft 7in)
Wingspan: 43.46 m (142 ft 7 in)
Height: 10.2 m (33 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 192 m² (2067.7 ft²)
Empty weight: 35,499 kg (78,261 lb)
Gross weight: 63,290 kg (139 530 lb)
Powerplant: 4 × Clerget 16H diesel engines, 2138.7 kW (2868 hp) at 6,400 m

[SIZE=3]Performance[/SIZE]
Maximum speed: 497 km/h (308 mph)
Cruise speed: 441.5 km/h (274 mph)
Range: 6,000 km (3,728 miles)
Service ceiling: 7,210 m (23,655 ft)
Rate of Climb: 7 m/s (23 ft/sec)

[SIZE=3]Notes:[/SIZE]
Designed to fly nonstop from Paris to Cleito, or from Cleito to New York, without stopovers. A later version (MB.972) will have 6,800km range to fly from Paris to New York without stopovers.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
I suppose, though the aircraft in the picture looks substantially smaller than I'd envision the Atlante being...

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Originally posted by Red Admiral

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
I suppose, though the aircraft in the picture looks substantially smaller than I'd envision the Atlante being...

Well that's because it is... The AZ.8 is much more DC-3 sized but is the right sort of shape. Haven't been able to find any decent airbourne photos yet.

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[SIZE=4]Hanriot H.312 Night Fighter[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]General Characteristics[/SIZE]
Crew: two (pilot, gunner)
Length: 11.52 m (37 ft 9 in)
Wingspan: 15 m (49 ft 2 in)
Height: 5.16 m (16 ft 11 in)
Wing area: 35.32 m² (380.04 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,208 kg (13,657 lb)
Loaded weight: 7,600 kg (16,720 lb)
Powerplant: 2× supercharged Hispano-Suiza 12Z liquid-cooled V12 engines, 1,650 hp each

[SIZE=3]Performance[/SIZE]
Maximum speed: 640 km/h (397 mph) at 6,400 m (20,990 ft)
Cruise speed: 500 km/h (308 mph)
Range: 2,000 km (1,242 mi)
Service ceiling: 10,000 m (32,808 ft)
Rate of climb: 3,850 ft/min (19.58 m/sec)

[SIZE=3]Armament[/SIZE]
- 2x23mm HS.406 cannon in nose
- 2x23mm HS.406 cannon in upward-firing installation

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[SIZE=4]Bloch MB.178-CN[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]MB.178 was a historical but never-completed aircraft with more powerful GR-14N radials. These specifications are based on previous versions but represent a fictional development of a night-fighter.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]General characteristics[/SIZE]
Crew: Two (pilot, navigator/TD operator)
Length: 12.25 m (40 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: 17.90 m (58 ft 9 in)
Height: 3.55 m (11 ft 8 in)
Wing area: 38 m² (409 ft²)
Empty weight: 5,700 kg (12,566 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 7,275 kg (16,039 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Gnome-Rhône 14N-20/21 14-cylinder radial engines, 1,103 kW (1,479.5 hp / 1,500cv) each

[SIZE=3]Performance[/SIZE]
Maximum speed: 580 km/h (313 kn, 360 mph)
Range: 1,800 km (972 nmi, 1118 mi)
Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,090 ft)
Rate of climb: 14 m/s (2,760 ft/min)

[SIZE=3]Armament[/SIZE]
- 2 × fixed, forward-firing 7.5 mm (.295 in) MAC 1934 machine guns in the wings
- 2 × 23 mm HS.406 cannons in upward-firing mount

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Originally posted by BruceDuncan
I see several ancillary questions to be considered.

First - how immediate is the need for a night fighter view by the French Air Staff?

If the need is viewed as "right now" or "yesterday", the Bloch design is your option. If the need is viewed as "real soon", you might procure a small force of Blochs in the near term and expedite development of the Hanriot. If the answer is "some day" I'd suggest forgetting the Bloch design, expediting the Hanriot and get a design team cracking on a long-term successor.

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Originally posted by BruceDuncan
Second - what is the picture for engine availability?

France has been introducing, or proposing, a number of designs based on the HS12Z engine. All these types will be competing for the finite quantity of engines that French industry can produce. The number of designs using GR14 engines, IIRC, is smaller than the HS12Z. In such circumstances the Bloch design with the GR radials would add less to the demand for fighter engines, which is heavily concentrated on the HS12Z. And of course, as a twin engine aircraft, the engine demand will be doubled per airframe produced.

IMHO France is facing a engine production as a bottleneck for its overall aircraft production program and while investments can be made to overcome that, doing so will take time. In such circumstances easing demand for the HS12Z would make sense.

Just my two centimes.

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Originally posted by Red Admiral
I'd go with the MB.178CN for the moment. Performance is sufficient for the current crop of bombers and it's already available. Sticking whatever AI radar France has come up with onto an existing platform seems like a good way to go to reduce risk. It gives some experience in actually operating the system, and the MB.178 has lots of space for training new crews (a criticism of the Mosquito's 2-seat cockpit). Getting everything to work in conjunction with systems on the ground is the major challenge, rather than going a bit faster. To a large degree, the platform choice doesn't particularly matter.

When to change aircraft is when opposing aircraft start cruising at 250-300mph instead of <200mph as they'll be much more difficult to catch. What's out there that might push things? A small number of He 177s, maybe some Vickers Windsors in a few years. The MB.178 is probably sufficient for the time being.

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[SIZE=4]Farman F.400 Ourse[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]Ahistoric heavy bomber.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]General characteristics[/SIZE]
Crew: 12
Length: 31.91 m (104 ft 8 in)
Wingspan: 37.50 m (123 ft 0 in)
Height: 7.25 m (23 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 153 m² (1,646 ft²)
Empty weight: 22,762 kg (50,182 lb)
Loaded weight: 39,000 kg (85,980 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 42,300 kg (93,255.5 lb)
Powerplant: 4× Clerget 16Hd-20 16-cylinder engines, 1,428 kW (1,915 hp / 1,941cv) each, driving four-bladed adjustable-pitch propellers

[SIZE=3]Performance:[/SIZE]
Maximum speed: 570.5 km/h (308 kn, 354.5 mph)
Range: 5,000 km (3,106 mi)
Service ceiling: 10,800 m (35,433 ft)
Rate of climb: 13 m/s (2,559 ft/min)

[SIZE=3]Armament[/SIZE]
- 2 × 13mm machine guns in dorsal turret
- 1 × 20mm cannon in tail position
- 2 × 13mm machine guns in ventral turret
- 1 × 13mm machine gun in nose/chin turret
- 5,000kg (11,023 lbs) bombs

[SIZE=3]Development Timeline[/SIZE]
- Development Start: June 1938
- First Flight: January 1941
- In Production: November 1941 (anticipated)
- In Service: February-April 1942 (anticipated)