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Greece?

Vukovlad

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21

Wednesday, February 10th 2010, 10:34pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
By reading Alt_naval news he seems to be in kinda a cold war with both Turkey and the AANM.

I think I saw a quote in an archive-dive: "Greece is paranoid and suspicious of everybody." :P

Bulgaria and Turkey have both repeatedly tried to make nice with the Greeks, offering them nonaggression treaties, trade deals, offers to drop all irredentist claims, etc. Greece pretty much told us "Talk to the hand, foos!" X(

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
I can see them increasing the size of their army as a response to the Turkish Army to something at least similar in size to their neighbors to the east. In tanks my opinion will be that they probably purchase British equipment after the Anglo-Greek agreement.

Probably will be smaller than the Turkish Army, and larger than the Bulgarian Army: OTL Greece fielded sixteen infantry divisions and two cavalry divisions during the Greco-Italian War. The Greek occupation of Macedonia and Anatolia would probably boost their overall population, but it's probably not going to exceed ten or twelve million people. (I think OTL Greece had seven million citizens.)


Well that makes political sense, Greece probably sees Turkey as the biggest stumbling block when it comes to Constantinople and Italy ofcourse screwed over Greece (OTL) when it comes to Northern Epirus

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (Feb 10th 2010, 10:38pm)

Brockpaine

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22

Wednesday, February 10th 2010, 10:36pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
As for small arms and MGs I'll let Brock decide as he seems the expert in this area.

Easy - keep it OTL! :D

From 1903 onward Greece used the excellent Mannlicher-Schonauer rifle, with the final orders being made in 1930.

The Greeks also used a modified Hotchkis, and in 1939 unveiled the extremely interesting EPK Pyrkal machine gun in 7.92x36. Almost an assault rifle, in fact.

Greece had a version of the French 75mm gun, FYI.

perdedor99

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23

Wednesday, February 10th 2010, 11:35pm

I think an 18 infantry division army with two cavalry divisions and other minor units seems reasonable. Here they have a larger population and they seemed to be kinda of not friendly to their neighbors so a large army seems almost a requisite.

Tanks are being seeing as just tools to support the infantry due to the terrain. Maybe one of the cavalry divisions is a Fast Division and one of the infantry divisions maybe is moving into motorization to serve as a reaction force.

OOC: I love the Fast Division option for small nations. It gives them the option to create motorized units on the cheap. Of course on practice they turned into two different units, a motorized and a horse-riding force. Still it looks good on paper. :rolleyes:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "perdedor99" (Feb 10th 2010, 11:36pm)

thesmilingassassin

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24

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 12:05am

Greece also has a MUCH larger navy than historical, keep that in mind when thinking about manpower.

Brockpaine

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Thursday, February 11th 2010, 12:29am

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Greece also has a MUCH larger navy than historical, keep that in mind when thinking about manpower.

Heh, yes. Wesworld Greece has more carriers than OTL Greece had modern destroyers.

Hrolf Hakonson

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Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:02am

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
I'll have an Greek AF OOB and equipment (and naval air) by the weekend.

Don't want all British types, I could see some German types Do-17s etc, maybe Bf-109. I'll try and keep things roughly OTL but with some limited expansion.


As for British equipment for the Army;

Light Tank Mk II, III, IV and V; the main British light tank and exported, would be useful in hilly terrain, MG armed but good for recon. Perhaps better than armoured cars. Maybe German could throw in some newer Panzer II models to upgrade the lighter forces?

Cruiser Tank Mk I and I CS (A9) and Cruiser Tank Mk II and II CS (A10); as the main British tank of the mid 1930s these would give a decent fast tank with a good AT gun. Not world beaters but good.

Maybe a batch of new Cruiser Tank Mk V Crusader (A15) for 1939?

Bren gun carriers easy to buy, armoured cars from a variety of sources perhaps? Some older Morris types, maybe Great War models from France, could have some newer Damiler 'Dingo' types for scouting.

For artillery I'd see a mainly French Great War set-up with 75mm and 155mm, Skoda guns from Czechoslovakia (esp moutain guns), with some newer 25pdr guns from the UK. 3.7in AA or German 88mm and the usual 40mm Bofors or German 37mm light flak should be ok for Greece. Anti-tank guns could be the 2pdr from the UK to match the tanks. Would be pretty effective for now, 6pdrs to follow from mid 1939. As for small arms and MGs I'll let Brock decide as he seems the expert in this area.


I'm dubious about Greece buying from Germany, given the friendship and sales between Germany and Turkey. France seems a lot more likely a supplier to me.

thesmilingassassin

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27

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:17am

Perhaps the Dutch, Belgians or Russians too.

perdedor99

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Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:22am

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Perhaps the Dutch, Belgians or Russians too.


Dutch and Belgians are part of the AANM so that reduce the choices IMO to Russia, France, and surprise, the United States.

looking at the sales by Russia to Turkey I think they are maybe eliminated also. maybe some early tanks and armored cars but by the middle of the decade the sales by Russia to Turkey would have made the Greeks a little mad.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "perdedor99" (Feb 11th 2010, 1:24am)

TheCanadian

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29

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:23am

Atlantis perhaps as well.

Brockpaine

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Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:25am

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Perhaps the Dutch, Belgians or Russians too.


Dutch and Belgians are part of the AANM so that reduce the choices IMO to Russia, France, and surprise, the United States.

A number of the early Greek warships were US built - the early battleships and the CAs in particular, I believe.

perdedor99

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31

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:26am

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Atlantis perhaps as well.


Greece could be mad about a Christian state holding the city of Constantinople and holding probably the mantle as leaders of the Orthodox Church. Of course I could be wrong and alt_naval supported that move, in that case Atlantis seems like a good choice for weapons.

perdedor99

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32

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:27am

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Perhaps the Dutch, Belgians or Russians too.


Dutch and Belgians are part of the AANM so that reduce the choices IMO to Russia, France, and surprise, the United States.

A number of the early Greek warships were US built - the early battleships and the CAs in particular, I believe.


That's why I mention them. The US weapons factories would be more than happy to make a buck selling weapons abroad.

Vukovlad

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33

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:30am

France and Poland seem to have been the main suppliers of aircraft OTL (as Germany is excluded in WW)

thesmilingassassin

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34

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 3:11am

Well relations between Greece and Atlantis pre Alt_Naval were good. Roger upon taking things over decided that he'd cool things abit, so I wouldn't complain if Greece came knocking at Atlantean weapons suppliers doors.

Brockpaine

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35

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 3:21am

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Well relations between Greece and Atlantis pre Alt_Naval were good. Roger upon taking things over decided that he'd cool things abit, so I wouldn't complain if Greece came knocking at Atlantean weapons suppliers doors.

I expect Greece wanted to take over Byzantium... :P

Greece was paranoid about a lot of people, it seems. One of the unfortunate byproducts of becoming an imperial conqueror.

AdmKuznetsov

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Thursday, February 11th 2010, 5:18am

That'll take some doing

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I expect Greece wanted to take over Byzantium...


what with all the ex-Russian 381mm covering the Straits.

perdedor99

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37

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 12:51pm

RE: That'll take some doing

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Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov

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I expect Greece wanted to take over Byzantium...


what with all the ex-Russian 381mm covering the Straits.


have you ever heard about Singapore? ;)

thesmilingassassin

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38

Thursday, February 11th 2010, 12:59pm

Heh, yeah now anyway. Roger eluded to the fact that Atlantis didn't have a large enough presence in Byzantium to keep Turkey in line. That being said, other Mediterranean powers thought Atlantean presence was too strong.

thesmilingassassin

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Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:01pm

RE: That'll take some doing

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99

Quoted

Originally posted by AdmKuznetsov

Quoted

I expect Greece wanted to take over Byzantium...


what with all the ex-Russian 381mm covering the Straits.


have you ever heard about Singapore? ;)


Byzantium is about half the distance from Atlantis that Singapore is from Britain, and we don't even have to discuss French or Russian support. ;)

So Singapore is not quite a good compairison.

Hrolf Hakonson

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Thursday, February 11th 2010, 1:09pm

On the other hand, Greece is MUCH, MUCH closer to Byzantium than Singapore is to Japan as well. So the comparison is not that flawed. Coast guns don't necessarily help much against a land invasion (see Sevastopol as well). Keeping Byzantium, now, if FAR actually tried to take it back, that would be a far more difficult thing.