WesWorld

I think at some point I'll go and produce a mid-life sketch of that cruiser. Kinda reckon she'd look good with a Terrier-style launcher aft.

Quoted from "snip"

Quoted from "BruceDuncan"

You omitted Leonardo, Raphael, Donatello and Michelangelo

That picture is missing the holes made by the 20mm rounds...

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

I think at some point I'll go and produce a mid-life sketch of that cruiser. Kinda reckon she'd look good with a Terrier-style launcher aft.

Is it going to be on the aft deck or will a turret be 'sacrificed' for it?

Given the topweight involved, I'd probably end up gutting the entire aft armament.

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

Given the topweight involved, I'd probably end up gutting the entire aft armament.

That sounds reasonable - it seems to be what the USN did for a lot of the wartime cruisers that got converted.

Yeah, their work on the Clevelands would be the logical starting point for any conversion.

It's been quite a while since Bharat invested in new landing craft capable of moving tanks and other heavy equipment, and with a new dock landing ship poised to begin construction, the time was right.

And since the type has considerable utility for moving other stuff - people, cargo, etc - Persia and Hedjaz requested an opportunity to participate in the design process. It was still largely a Bharati-led exercise, but it meant that the smaller countries were able to use the final design rather than start from scratch on something indigenous.

At the moment, twenty-two units are on the books: A dozen for Bharat, eight for Persia, and two for Hedjaz. Bharat and Persia will be building at a rate of one per quarter, while Hedjaz will find one per six months to be sufficiently challenging for its nascent industry.

Using LST rules, this would be 282 t - (167/2 = 83) = 199 t to build per unit.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1945

Displacement:
282 t light; 292 t standard; 295 t normal; 298 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
126.93 ft / 124.67 ft x 32.81 ft x 3.61 ft (normal load)
38.69 m / 38.00 m x 10.00 m x 1.10 m

Armament:
2 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1945 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 1 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 5,000

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 94 shp / 70 Kw = 8.00 kts
Range 500nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6 tons

Complement:
35 - 46

Cost:
£0.071 million / $0.285 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 0 tons, 0.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2 tons, 0.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 113 tons, 38.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13 tons, 4.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 167 tons, 56.6 %
-160 t: Vehicles and cargo
-7 t: Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
845 lbs / 383 Kg = 1,772.8 x 1.0 " / 25 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.76

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.700
Length to Beam Ratio: 3.80 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 33 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 12.80 ft / 3.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.83 ft / 3.30 m (6.89 ft / 2.10 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 6.89 ft / 2.10 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.83 ft / 3.30 m (6.89 ft / 2.10 m before break)
- Stern: 10.83 ft / 3.30 m
- Average freeboard: 8.43 ft / 2.57 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.4 %
Waterplane Area: 3,424 Square feet or 318 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 171 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 135 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 3.02
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

The aircraft carrier Trishula will be laid down in January 1945.

A range of design options were considered while the previous carrier, Bagh Nakh, was under construction. This ranged from a duplicate of that carrier to something in the 45,000 t range. The duplicate option was discarded as the BNS began to develop niggling concerns about the limited length of Bagh Nakh's flight deck, and its implications for future aircraft operations. The full-sized option was discarded on account of cost.

What emerged was still a large warship (by Bharati standards), only just capable of fitting into the class four drydock where she will be built. It is hoped that the BNS will be able to maintain her as a capable warship for thirty years.

The ship is designed to operate 90 aircraft of WW2 size - only six more than the smaller Bagh Nakh. Seven full combat squadrons and one smaller utility squadron would nominally be embarked.

While the number of lifts has been kept at three, the disposition now sees the aft lift placed on the starboard deck-edge. Trishula's larger hull allows for a spacious 215 metre long, 6.5 metre high hanger. With the exception of the shuttering ventilation openings, the hanger sides are splinter-proofed.

Armament and protection follow the trends set by Bagh Nakh, with exceptions. One is heavier deck armor, for protection against bombs. Another is the heavier secondary and tertiary AA armament, both made possible by the larger hull. Four primary and eight secondary gun directors have been installed.

Considerable space has been set aside for command and air operations facilities, and nearly five hundred tonnes has been allocated as a weight reserve. This could include an additional dozen or more unassembled replacement aircraft.

Trishula's planned 1948 completion will have a significant impact on Bharati naval operations. It is anticipated that the utility carrier Vel will be retired at this point, with both of the Urumi class carriers being assigned to secondary duties such as training, aircraft transport, and ASW operations. An unspoken assumption is that the Urumi's battleship escorts, Akbar and Jahangir, will be retired at that time.



Trishula (Trident), Bharati aircraft carrier, laid down 1945

Displacement:
36,715 t light; 37,896 t standard; 43,105 t normal; 47,272 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
926.09 ft / 882.55 ft x 101.71 ft (Bulges 108.27 ft) x 28.71 ft (normal load)
282.27 m / 269.00 m x 31.00 m (Bulges 33.00 m) x 8.75 m

Armament:
12 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
40 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (20x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1945 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
40 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (20x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,005 lbs / 456 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 500

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 518.37 ft / 158.00 m 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 0.98" / 25 mm 705.38 ft / 215.00 m 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.95" / 75 mm 573.65 ft / 174.85 m 26.35 ft / 8.03 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 166,220 shp / 124,000 Kw = 32.05 kts
Range 20,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9,376 tons

Complement:
1,495 - 1,944

Cost:
£13.668 million / $54.672 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 126 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 9,562 tons, 22.2 %
- Belts: 2,010 tons, 4.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,651 tons, 3.8 %
- Armament: 96 tons, 0.2 %
- Armour Deck: 5,700 tons, 13.2 %
- Conning Tower: 104 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,197 tons, 9.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,444 tons, 31.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,389 tons, 14.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 9,386 tons, 21.8 %
-8,100 t: Airgroup of 90 WW2 era aircraft
-486 t: Weight reserve
-200 t: Electronics, fire control, and communications
-200 t: Command facilities
-200 t: Flight operations facilities
-200 t: Enhanced damage control equipment

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
94,527 lbs / 42,877 Kg = 1,586.2 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 16.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.75

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 34.26 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 54.13 ft / 16.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Stern: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Average freeboard: 33.01 ft / 10.06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 259.0 %
Waterplane Area: 65,217 Square feet or 6,059 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 152 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 671 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.29
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Okay, why do I get an itty-bitty picture instead of something big?

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

Okay, why do I get an itty-bitty picture instead of something big?

Because the new version of the forum software automatically resizes pictures to fit what it thinks is appropriate. It links back to your source URL so by clicking on it someone can see the larger version. An "improvement".

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

Okay, why do I get an itty-bitty picture instead of something big?

Forum now auto-resizes pictures so they do not eat up so much screen real estate. Clicking should show the full sized image.

Well, that sucks. It's like looking at the Death Star from five million kilometres away.

Quoted from "The Rock Doctor"

Well, that sucks. It's like looking at the Death Star from five million kilometres away.

"That's not a moon... that's a space station!"

ShinRa and I have been requesting either the capability to change the image-resizing, or for someone else to do it. (It is currently either impossible for the forum software or outside the limits of our permission level.) Unfortunately, there's been no result as of yet.

The Colonel Asaf Kripalani is Bharat's first landing ship (dock), though small dock wells are contained within two disaster relief ships.

There was debate within the BNS about the ship's precise role - whether it should undertake independent landing operations or merely support such operations. The former option entailed a larger design, primarily for additional troop accommodation, and was therefore more expensive. Ultimately, it was decided that the smaller design would be adopted for a single unit - allowing the BNS to assess the merits and flaws of the design and contemplate a later, larger follow-up to eventually replace its infantry landing ships.

Consequently, the Kripalani is a small LSD with a lengthy well deck and the capacity to transport 1,300 t in cargo - be it vehicles, landing craft, or other materials. Sufficient troop accommodation has been provided for vehicle and landing craft crews, but not much more.

Workspace includes workshops and stores for repair of both landing craft and vehicles, as well as fuel and cargo stores for both. A large sick bay has also been included, to help treat troop casualties in war or civilian casualties in disaster relief operations.

One unit is to be laid down.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1945

Displacement:
5,305 t light; 5,495 t standard; 8,577 t normal; 11,043 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
464.00 ft / 459.32 ft x 72.18 ft x 15.09 ft (normal load)
141.43 m / 140.00 m x 22.00 m x 4.60 m

Armament:
1 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose gun in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline forward
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1945 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1945 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 109 lbs / 49 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 7,372 shp / 5,500 Kw = 17.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,387 t
(simmed as: Range 32,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,549 tons)

Complement:
445 - 579

Cost:
£1.534 million / $6.136 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 12 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 10 tons, 0.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 10 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 186 tons, 2.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,704 tons, 31.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,270 tons, 38.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,390 tons, 27.9 % + 4,162 t simmed as bunkerage
-120 x 13.5 x 2.4 m well deck, flooded: 3,888 t (simmed as bunkerage)
-274 t: Vehicle and landing craft fuel, ammo, and stores (simmed as bunkerage)
-1,300 t: Landing craft, vehicles, and cargo as required
-500 t: Accommodation for 250 troops
-200 t: Small craft repair facilities and stores
-150 t: 2x50 t and 2x25 t cranes
-100 t: Medical facilities
-100 t: Vehicle repair facilities and stores
-40 t: Weight reserve


Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,171 lbs / 15,046 Kg = 556.6 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 12.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.98

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.11 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m
- Mid (50 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Stern: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 19.92 ft / 6.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 40.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 209.7 %
Waterplane Area: 25,271 Square feet or 2,348 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 298 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 393 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

An interesting design, well tailored to Bharati needs. That said, I have a couple of concerns, though not faults...

1 - the well deck seems to take a very large percentage of the length - 85% to be exact. The Wittelsbach class LSD of the Kriegsmarine is only 117.8 metres in length overall - but only 78% of the overall length of the vessel. I am concerned that the well deck of the proposed vessel might be too long.

2 - You've chosen steam turbines for the design; as the engines will be confined in the sidewalls between the well deck and the outer hull, diesels might be a more compact solution. It's something you might consider.

#2 is certainly easy to amend.

#1: The dock:length ratio is comparable to the historical Ashland, but I see I didn't account for the historical ship's narrower width of the dock right forward. Thanks for pointing this out, I'll tinker.

Yes - I had a source that gave the actual dimensions for the Ashland/Casa Grande class docking well. The forward section is rather narrow and has less depth of water, intended for smaller landing craft I suspect.

Unfortunately, I haven't found the dimensioned drawing on line. If I do, I will post it.

I'm thinking the forward section of the well deck will be 17m long and 7.3 m wide, more or less consistent with the Ashland deck. This frees up 17.3x6.2x2.4 = 253 t of not-bunkerage, so I'll have to figure out what to do with that.

The forward well deck would be able to accommodate two LCVP (8t capacity) or one LCM (20 t capacity)

Options for the main well deck, 103 x 13.5 m in dimension, include:

-Six LCVP (three abreast) and two LCT (167 t capacity)

-Three LCM (three abreast) and two LCT

-Three LCVP (three abreast), nine LCM (three abreast), and one LCT

-Eighteen LCM (three abreast)

Technically, there's room for a line of LCVP adjacent to the LCT, but the remaining void space would be just 0.2 metres and I don't think that's enough.

Hah!

I thought I had a digital copy of that Ashland drawing.



Maybe this will help your tinkering.