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21

Tuesday, August 9th 2011, 4:08pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Aside from that I can think of no reason why I should hold back on introducing it any longer.


No reason at all that I can see.

22

Tuesday, August 9th 2011, 4:58pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
What's "British 9mm" if it's not 9mm Luger/Parabellum? Ahistoric cartridge?


Erm, dunno. It seems the Sten was designed for Parabellum but in one book it said the Sten was designed to handle a British cartridge. That made me wonder if the British parabellum was altered in some way?

23

Tuesday, August 9th 2011, 5:07pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
What's "British 9mm" if it's not 9mm Luger/Parabellum? Ahistoric cartridge?


Erm, dunno. It seems the Sten was designed for Parabellum but in one book it said the Sten was designed to handle a British cartridge. That made me wonder if the British parabellum was altered in some way?

Odd. I don't know offhand of any "British" 9mm cartridges, which is why I asked. You might just be better sticking with straight, unmodified 9mm Para; I presume that's what you use in the Lanchester and your semiauto sidearms.

24

Tuesday, August 9th 2011, 5:24pm

Well, apparently...

There is an article here on British submachineguns. According to it, around 1926 Birmingham Small Arms tried to interest the British Army in a version of the Thompson SMG chambered for a 9mm x 20mm cartridge rather than the 9mm x 19mm Parabellum. All other British weapons were chambered for the 9mm x 19mm round. So, there appears to be a 'British' 9mm round.

I am not a gunsmith to know whether they would be in any way interchangeable.

I am not certain that I would want to find out. ;)

25

Tuesday, August 9th 2011, 5:44pm

Ok Parabellum only it is.

26

Tuesday, August 9th 2011, 5:58pm

RE: Well, apparently...

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
There is an article here on British submachineguns. According to it, around 1926 Birmingham Small Arms tried to interest the British Army in a version of the Thompson SMG chambered for a 9mm x 20mm cartridge rather than the 9mm x 19mm Parabellum. All other British weapons were chambered for the 9mm x 19mm round. So, there appears to be a 'British' 9mm round.

I am not a gunsmith to know whether they would be in any way interchangeable.

I am not certain that I would want to find out. ;)

9x20mm is the case dimension, so the case is only 1mm longer than the 9mm Para/Luger. I'd be more interested to know if the overall cartridge length and the head dimensions are the same. If it's just a Para round lengthened by 1mm, then it might fire without too much trouble from a gun chambered for Para, but the rounds might hang up in the magazine or on the feed ramp. If the head dimensions are different, then there are a lot of different issues that come up.

Frankly, 9x20 is close enough to 9x19 Para that I'd have to wonder what the heck the designers were smoking. "Yes, Jeeves, let's make a round like the 9x19 Para but make it one millimeter longer!" "Why, sir? For what purpose?" "Because we want to be different!"

27

Tuesday, August 9th 2011, 6:06pm

Quoted

Frankly, 9x20 is close enough to 9x19 Para that I'd have to wonder what the heck the designers were smoking. "Yes, Jeeves, let's make a round like the 9x19 Para but make it one millimeter longer!" "Why, sir? For what purpose?" "Because we want to be different!"


I just report the facts... :rolleyes:

28

Wednesday, August 10th 2011, 11:45am

They were probaby smoking a fine pipe.

Actually you might find its becuase of Imperial measurements, its closer to 9/12 of an inch.

29

Thursday, August 11th 2011, 3:58pm

I think it's what's in the cartridge rather than the length that makes the difference between 'British' and 'Parabellum'. Britain was using cordite as a propellant and just about everyone else was using nitrocellulose. IIRC, this is why the gas cylinder on the Bren is shorter than on the ZB26 family.

30

Monday, September 5th 2011, 11:52pm

Motorised Infantry Battalions (1941 Pattern) each have,
1 HQ Company (3 LMG, 13 Carriers)
3 Rifle Companies each with one HQ and two platoons (6 LMG and 26 Carriers (18 Universal Carriers and 8 2in Mortar Carriers) each company)
1 Support Company (1 MMG Platoon with 12 MMG Carriers, 1 Mortar Platoon with 12 3in mortar Carriers (50rpg), 1 Mortar Platoon with 12 2in mortar Carriers (70rpg) and 1 AT platoon (4 towed 2pdr AT guns with 4 Universal Carriers)
Battalion Total: 71 Universal Carriers, 36 2in Mortar Carriers, 12 3in Mortar Carriers and 8 Machine Gun Carriers = 127 Carriers


In 1941 production switched to the Universal Carrier No.1 Mk IV which combines the roles of the Carrier Machine Gun, Infantry Carrier and OP Carrier. It has capacity for six infantry and is armed with two Vickers ‘K’ LMGs and is fitted with radio equipment. It has rear hull attachments for cable drums and can tow trailers and light AT (2pdr and 6pdr) and AA (20mm, 2pdr, 6pdr) guns. It has increased fuel tankage for a range of 150 miles.
10mm thick armour; 3.75tons; 12ft x 6ft 9ins x 4ft 9ins; Ford V-8 85bhp petrol; 30mph, 150 miles and 1,200lb payload.

31

Tuesday, September 6th 2011, 12:53am

I find the number of carriers - of differing types - to be rather large. While the total manpower allocated to the battalion is not specified, far too much of it will be tied up driving the carriers. For a battalion of say 900 men, nearly one in seven is going to be stuck driving and contribute little to a firefight; if the battalion is in fact smaller in numbers, the proportion goes up.

32

Tuesday, September 6th 2011, 4:20am

No offense intended, Hood, but I think this particular pattern is not ideally optimized for either the vehicles you're using or modern organizational military practice.

While the Universal Carrier has many strengths and weaknesses, I think that in this particular instance you've tried to shoehorn it into a place where it does not belong, simply because Britain doesn't have anything better to place there. It's kinda ignoring the entire reason Britain designed the Universal Carrier to start with: it's not a "universal carrier" to carry MGs, mortars, infantry, etc - it's a carrier meant for universal use by all the battalions in the British Army.

As I have the historical order of battle for the British motor battalions, I'd like to offer an alternative proposal (to follow...)

33

Tuesday, September 6th 2011, 7:26am

Here's my suggestion for a more historically-derived British Motor Battalion order of battle. I have built it using the actual British orbats of the 1940-41 period, though I added some sweeteners.

There are fewer Universal Carriers in this battalion than in the OP, but there's actually about twice as many as historical. Remember that the Universal Carrier (and it's immediate predecessors) were designed to be universally distributed among the British Army, offering each infantry unit just a little bit more heavy support than available to other nations' infantry units. The Universal Carriers are concentrated in a single platoon within the Infantry Company, and each infantry company thus offers a fairly broad spectrum of weaponry, including light AT assets and no less than three 2-inch mortars.

In this case, the infantry is motorized in trucks rather than in Universal Carriers. Trucks are significantly cheaper, can carry more men and gear than a Universal Carrier (which can only carry four men), and are easier to maintain. Further, they don't require as many crewmen as the Universal Carriers do.

Historically, the British created motor infantry battalions to be assigned as partners to armoured regiments, and thus they did not place any AT assets with the motor battalions, as they were expected to operate in close proximity to other, more effective, antitank assets. I think that's just a tad shortsighted, myself, and so I added a weapons company with four towed AT guns (either 2- or 6-pounders), some extra mortars, and some AA machine guns, just in case. This order of battle actually more closely resembles the British 1942 battalions, as they started adding more AT assets and mortars in order to try to better deal with the Germans in North Africa. Adding the weapons company just adds extra options - and what sort of commander doesn't like options? Further, I'd presume that the British would be able to benefit indirectly from the word filtering out of the Irish experience in Afghanistan, where the lack of effective AT guns in the infantry battalion was a matter of some annoyance.

Although I used the historical eight-man motor infantry section, other alternatives may also exist. If Britain has a large enough standard military truck, then you might wish to consider making the squad sizes more robust, say ten men. This would raise the manpower size of the motor companies for a minimal expenditure in equipment. Indeed, if your standard trucks are capable of carrying ten in the back and two in the front, then four seats remain empty with the historical eight-man squad. If you did this, you'd probably then wish to offset it (to keep the battalion at a manageable amount of manpower) by reducing the number of motor companies in the motor battalion from four to three.

Quoted

British Motor Battalion:
- 1 headquarters company: 121 men, 25 pistols, 96 rifles, 3 Vickers LMGs, 2 SMGs, 15 trucks, 9 field cars, 9 motorcycles
- 4 motor companies: 137 men, 15 pistols, 122 rifles, 3 SMGs, 21 Vickers LMGs, 3 Boys AT rifles, 3 2-inch mortars, 15 trucks, 10 Universal Carriers, 1 field car, 6 motorcycles
- 1 weapons company: 146 men, 37 pistols, 99 rifles, 4 Vickers LMGs, 4 Vickers HMGs, 4 3-inch mortars, 4 towed AT guns, 4 Universal Carriers, 4 artillery tractors, 15 trucks, 1 field car, 6 motorcycles
- Total: 815 men, 122 pistols, 683 rifles, 14 SMGs, 91 Vickers LMGs, 4 Vickers HMGs, 12 Boys AT rifles, 12 2-inch mortars, 4 3-inch mortars, 4 towed AT guns, 44 Universal Carriers, 4 artillery tractors, 90 trucks, 14 field cars, 39 motorcycles

Quoted

Motor Company:
- 3 motor platoons: 32 men, 1 pistol, 25 rifles, 1 SMG, 3 Vickers LMGs, 4 trucks, 1 motorcycle
- 1 carrier platoon: 41 men, 7 pistols, 24 rifles, 10 Vickers LMGs, 3 2" mortars, 3 Boys AT rifles, 4 radios, 10 Universal Carriers, 1 motorcycle
- 1 company headquarters: 30 men (2 officers), 5 pistols, 23 rifles, 2 Vickers LMGs, 3 trucks, 1 field car, 2 motorcycles
- Total: 137 men, 15 pistols, 122 rifles, 3 SMGs, 21 Vickers LMGs, 3 Boys AT rifles, 3 2-inch mortars, 15 trucks, 10 Universal Carriers, 1 field car, 6 motorcycles

Quoted

Motor Platoon:
- 3 motor sections: 8 men, 7 rifles, 1 Vickers LMG, 1 truck
- 1 platoon headquarters: 1 officer, 1 NCO, 4 men, 1 truck, 1 motorcycle, 1 SMG, 4 rifles, 1 pistol
- Total: 32 men, 1 pistol, 25 rifles, 1 SMG, 3 Vickers LMGs, 4 trucks, 1 motorcycle

Motor Section:
- 6 men, 5 rifles, 1 LMG
- 1 NCO, 1 rifle
- 1 man, 1 rifle, 1 truck
- Total: 8 men, 7 rifles, 1 LMG, 1 truck


Quoted

Carrier Platoon:
- 3 carrier sections: 12 men, 2 pistols, 7 rifles, 3 Vickers LMGs, 3 Universal Carriers, 1 2" mortar, 1 Boys AT rifle
- 1 platoon headquarters: 5 men, 1 radio set, 1 Vickers LMG, 3 rifles, 1 motorcycle, 1 Universal Carrier
- Total: 41 men, 7 pistols, 24 rifles, 10 Vickers LMGs, 3 2" mortars, 3 Boys AT rifles, 4 radios, 10 Universal Carriers, 1 motorcycle

Carrier Section:
- 1 Universal Carrier: 4 men (commander, driver, gunner, rifleman), 1 radio set, 1 Vickers LMG, 3 rifles
- 1 Universal Carrier: 4 men (commander, driver, gunner, rifleman), 1 2-inch mortar, 1 Vickers LMG, 2 rifles, 1 pistol
- 1 Universal Carrier: 4 men (commander, driver, gunner, rifleman), 1 Boys AT rifle, 1 Vickers LMG, 2 rifles, 1 pistol
- Total: 12 men, 2 pistols, 7 rifles, 3 Vickers LMGs, 3 Universal Carriers, 1 2" mortar, 1 Boys AT rifle


Quoted

Headquarters Company:
- 1 company headquarters: 6 men, 4 pistols, 2 SMGs, 2 field cars
- 1 signals platoon: 28 men, 6 pistols, 22 rifles, 3 trucks, 3 field cars, 3 motorcycles
- 1 administrative platoon: 89 men, 15 pistols, 74 rifles, 3 Vickers LMGs, 12 trucks, 4 field cars, 6 motorcycles
- Total: 121 men, 25 pistols, 96 rifles, 3 Vickers LMGs, 2 SMGs, 15 trucks, 9 field cars, 9 motorcycles


Quoted

Weapons Company:
- 1 AT platoon: 48 men, 12 pistols, 36 rifles, 4 towed AT guns, 4 artillery tractors, 6 trucks, 2 motorcycles
- 1 heavy machinegun platoon: 20 men, 8 pistols, 4 rifles, 4 Vickers heavy machine guns, 2 trucks
- 1 mortar platoon: 48 men, 12 pistols, 36 rifles, 4 Vickers LMGs, 4 3-inch mortars, 4 Universal carriers, 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles
- 1 company headquarters: 30 men (2 officers), 5 pistols, 23 rifles, 2 Vickers LMGs, 3 trucks, 1 field car, 2 motorcycles
- Total: 146 men, 37 pistols, 99 rifles, 4 Vickers LMGs, 4 Vickers HMGs, 4 3-inch mortars, 4 towed AT guns, 4 Universal Carriers, 4 artillery tractors, 15 trucks, 1 field car, 6 motorcycles

34

Saturday, September 10th 2011, 2:30pm

I can see all your points Brock and have worked them into the following;

I am now working on a new 1942 Pattern OOB.

Corps Organisation
Corps HQ
1 Signals Battalion with; 1 HQ and 3 Companies (10 trucks, 3 field cars 36 motorcycles)
1 RE Corps Field Park
3 RE Corps Field Companies
1 RE Corps Field Survey Company
3 RASC Corps Field Companies
2 Corps Field Hospitals
4 Field Ambulance Companies
4 Provost (Military Police) Companies (9 LMG)
1 Regiment of Medium Artillery with; HQ Staff (2 LMG), Mapping Staff, 2 Batteries each split into two two-gun troops (8 towed 4.5 in/5.5in guns (130 HE and 20 smoke rpg), 8 artillery tractors, 12 trucks, 2 motorcycles each)
1 Regiment of Heavy Artillery with; HQ Staff (2 LMG), Mapping Staff, 2 Batteries (4 7.2in guns (120rpg all HE), four artillery tractors, 8 trucks, 2 motorcycles each)
1 RA HAA Regiment with HQ Staff (2 LMG), 3 Batteries each split into two four-gun troops (8 3.7in AA guns, 8 artillery tractors, 8 trucks each battery)
1 RA LAA Regiment with HQ Staff (2 LMG), 3 Batteries each split into two four-gun troops (8 20mm AA guns, 8 trucks each battery)

Infantry Division Organisation

Division HQ
1 Signals Battalion with; 1 HQ and 3 Companies (10 trucks, 3 field cars 36 motorcycles) HQ RA
HQ RE
HQ RASC
HQ REME
1 Field Security Section
1 RE Field Park Company
2 RE Field Companies
4 RASC Companies
3 REME Workshops
1 Provost (Military Police) Company (9 LMG)
1 Mobile Bath Unit
1 Division Ammunition Company
1 Division Support Company
2 Field Ambulance Companies
1 Field Hospital
1 Field Hygiene Section
1 Postal Unit
1 Field Kitchen

1 Reconnaissance Regiment with;
1 HQ Squadron with one HQ (2 LMG, 2 field cars, 1 truck, 2 motorcycles), one Signals Troop (1 LMG, 1 truck, 3 motorcycles), one Mortar Troop (6 3in Mortars (60rpg), 6 trucks), one AT battery (8 2pdr/6pdr AT guns, 8 Universal Carriers, 8 trucks, 2 motorcycles)
3 Reece Squadrons each with; 3 Recce Troops (12 LMGs, 3 Boys AT rifles, 3 2in mortars, 5 trucks, 6 Universal Carriers, 1 field car, 6 motorcycles)

2 RA Field Regiments each with; HQ Staff (2 LMG), 1 Mapping Staff, 3 Batteries each split into two four-gun troops (8 25pdr (144 HE and 36 smoke rpg), 8 artillery tractors, 8 trucks, 2 motorcycles each battery)

1 RA AT Regiment with; HQ Staff (2 LMG), Reconnaissance Troop (4 LMG, 2 Universal Carriers, 2 motorcycles), 4 Batteries (4 towed 2pdr/ 6pdr AT guns (200rpg), 4 artillery tractors/ Universal Carriers, 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles each)

1 RA LAA Regiment with HQ Staff (2 LMG), 3 Batteries each split into two four-gun troops (8 20mm AA guns, 8 trucks each battery)

1 Machine Gun Battalion with Battalion HQ (3 LMG, 4 trucks, 4 field cars, 6 motorcycles), 4 companies with three platoons each (12 MMG, 6 trucks, 2 motorcycles per company)

3 Infantry Brigades, each with;
Brigade HQ
2 Infantry Battalions
1 Motorised Infantry Battalion
1 MG Company (12 MMG, 2 trucks)
2 AT batteries (4 6pdr (200rpg), 4 artillery tractors, 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles each)
1 Heavy Mortar Platoon (4 LMG, 4 3in mortars (80rpg), 8 trucks, 2 motorcycles)
1 LAA Troop (4 20mm, 4 trucks)
1 RASC Field Company
1 Field Ambulance Company

Infantry Battalions each have,
Battalion HQ (3 LMG, 15 trucks, 12 field cars, 9 motorcycles)
3 Rifle Companies each with one HQ (3 LMG) and three platoons (9 LMG, 3 2in mortars, 3 Boys AT rifles each company)
1 Support Company with; Company HQ (2 LMG, 3 trucks, 1 field car, 2 motorcycles), 1 MMG Platoon (4 MMG, 2 trucks), 1 Mortar Platoon (4 LMG, 4 3in Mortar Carriers (50rpg) 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles) and 1 AT platoon (4 towed 2pdr/ 6pdr AT guns (60rpg), 4 artillery tractors, 6 trucks, 2 motorcycles)

Motorised Infantry Battalions each have,
Battalion HQ (3 LMG, 15 trucks, 12 field cars, 9 motorcycles)
Company HQ (3 LMG, 15 trucks, 9 field cars, 9 motorcycles)
3 Rifle Companies each with one HQ, two platoons and one Carrier Platoon (21 LMGs, 3 Boys AT rifles, 3 2in mortars, 15 trucks, 13 Universal Carriers, 1 field car, 6 motorcycles each)
1 Support Company with; Company HQ (2 LMG, 3 trucks, 1 field car, 2 motorcycles), 1 MMG Platoon (4 MMG Carriers, 1 truck), 1 Mortar Platoon (4 LMG, 4 3in Mortar Carriers (50rpg) 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles) and 1 AT platoon (4 towed 2pdr/ 6pdr AT guns (60rpg), 4 Universal Carriers, 6 trucks, 2 motorcycles)
Battalion Total: 43 Universal Carriers, 4 3in Mortar Carriers and 4 Machine Gun Carriers = 52 Carriers, 89 trucks, 25 field cars and 42 motorcycles.


Royal Armoured Corps (RAC)

Armoured Division Organisation


Division HQ (8 Cruiser tanks, 2 AA tanks, 5 trucks, 4 field cars)
1 Signals Battalion with; 1 HQ and 4 Companies (15 trucks, 5 field cars 36 motorcycles) HQ RA
HQ RE
HQ RASC
HQ REME
1 Field Security Section
1 RE Field Park Company
2 RE Field Squadrons
4 RASC Companies
3 REME Workshops
1 Provost (Military Police) Company (9 LMG)
1 Mobile Bath Unit
1 Division Ammunition Company
1 Division Support Company
2 Field Ambulance Companies
1 Field Hospital
1 Field Hygiene Section
1 Postal Unit
1 Field Kitchen

2 RA Field Regiments with; HQ Staff (2 LMG), 1 Mapping Staff, 3 Batteries each split into two four-gun troops (8 25pdr (144 HE and 36 smoke rpg), 8 artillery tractors, 8 trucks, 2 motorcycles each battery)

1 RA AT Regiment with; HQ Staff (2 LMG), Reconnaissance Troop (4 LMG, 2 Universal Carriers, 2 motorcycles), 4 Batteries (4 towed 6pdr AT guns (200rpg), 4 artillery tractors/ Universal Carriers, 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles each)

1 RA LAA Regiment with HQ Staff (2 LMG), 3 Batteries each split into two four-gun troops (8 AA tanks, 2 trucks each battery)

1 Brigade with;
Brigade HQ (8 Cruiser tanks, 2 AA tanks, 3 trucks, 4 field cars)
2 AT batteries (4 6pdr (200rpg), 4 artillery tractors/ Universal Carriers, 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles each)
1 LAA Troop (4 AA tanks, 1 truck)
1 REME Field Company
1 RASC Field Company
1 Field Ambulance Company

3 Royal Tank Regiments (RTR) each with;
HQ Squadron (3 tanks, 2 AA tanks)
2 Cruiser Squadron (15 tanks (3 Troops of 4 tanks and 1 HQ Troop with 3 tanks) each)
2 Support Squadron (15 tanks (3 Troops of 4 tanks and 1 HQ Troop with 3 tanks) each)
Regiment total: 63 tanks
Armoured Division total: 205 tanks, 38 AA tanks

1 Light Armoured Reconnaissance Brigade each with two Armoured Car Regiments, each regiment has;
HQ Squadron (3 light tanks)
4 Reece Squadron (6 armoured cars, 6 scout cars and three light tanks each)
Regiment total: 24 armoured cars 24 scout cars and 15 light tanks

1 Infantry Brigade with;
Brigade HQ (3 LMG, 15 trucks, 15 field cars, 12 motorcycles)
3 Motorised Infantry Battalions
1 MG Company (12 MMG, 2 trucks)
2 AT batteries (4 6pdr (200rpg), 4 artillery tractors, 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles each)
1 Heavy Mortar Platoon (4 LMG, 4 3in mortars (80rpg), 8 trucks, 2 motorcycles)
1 LAA Troop (4 20mm, 4 trucks)
1 Field Company RASC
1 Field Ambulance Company

Motorised Infantry Battalions each have,
Battalion HQ (3 LMG, 15 trucks, 12 field cars, 9 motorcycles)
Company HQ (3 LMG, 15 trucks, 9 field cars, 9 motorcycles)
3 Rifle Companies each with one HQ, two platoons and one Carrier Platoon (21 LMGs, 3 Boys AT rifles, 3 2in mortars, 15 trucks, 13 Universal Carriers, 1 field car, 6 motorcycles each)
1 Support Company with; Company HQ (2 LMG, 3 trucks, 1 field car, 2 motorcycles), 1 MMG Platoon (4 MMG Carriers, 1 truck), 1 Mortar Platoon (4 LMG, 4 3in Mortar Carriers (50rpg) 4 trucks, 2 motorcycles) and 1 AT platoon (4 towed 2pdr/ 6pdr AT guns (60rpg), 4 Universal Carriers, 6 trucks, 2 motorcycles)
Battalion Total: 43 Universal Carriers, 4 3in Mortar Carriers and 4 Machine Gun Carriers = 52 Carriers, 89 trucks, 25 field cars and 42 motorcycles.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Hood" (Sep 10th 2011, 3:40pm)


35

Sunday, September 11th 2011, 12:45am

I am curious regarding your reasoning for incorporating motor infantry battalions into each of the infantry brigades of the new-pattern infantry divisions. One would think that the combination of 'motor' and 'leg' would make tactical cooperation difficult.

36

Sunday, September 11th 2011, 12:02pm

Ah you see, now you know why I value the experience of you OOB experts! ;)

I've changed my OOB to;
2 Infantry Brigades
1 Motorised Brigade

How does my revised armoured div look to you now Bruce? I've cut the tanks down a little by removing a Troop from each sqaudron to reduce the demands on production and equipment I currently have. I was going to cut an RA Field Reg but felt having two was better for fire-support. The RA AT Batteries at Armoured Brigade level will be mechanised with the Alecto, possibly the RA AT Regiment at Division level too. I haven't decided which AA tanks are 20mm and 6pdr yet. I'm leaning towards 20mm AA tanks with the HQ units and the 6pdr with the LAA Regiment.

37

Sunday, September 11th 2011, 6:42pm

In regards to the new order of battle for the British armoured division, it is now in better balance, at least on paper. The need to have separate support tanks to assist the cruisers remains a tactical detriment, which can be addressed over time through procurement of tanks with better armament - it seems that you are addressing that. The increase of infantry suggests new tactical doctrine; how this plays out in the future will be interesting. The Alecto is a neat looking vehicle but I have to wonder if in fact it would serve well in combat; it was never combat tested in OTL and its usefulness remains to be seen.

Unfortunately, the WW British Army has concentrated all its tank assets in a large number of armoured divisions - far more that OTL Britain was able to maintain at any one time - and has left its infantry formations without any armoured support. I see this as a weakness remaining to be addressed - particularly in the light of British success in the Great War with tanks providing direct support to infantry.

As for the infantry division, even if the motor infantry battalions are concentrated in a single brigade tying them to two 'leg' infantry brigades reduces their tactical mobility and they certainly cannot substitute for tank or other AFV support. Also, I find the artillery strength of the infantry division comparatively weak - with only two regiments under control of the divisional CRA I foresee the distinct possibility that someone will be left without fire support.

38

Monday, September 12th 2011, 9:28pm

It's all OTL stuff really with a few tweaks here and there and doubtless future improvements will be made.
Generally armoured division tank numbers will drop as the cruiser becomes the main MBT. Motorised Infantry Divisions is the main aim for the future but I'm probably a bit away from that yet. Certainly mixed divisions were tried OTL and soon abandoned.

39

Tuesday, November 22nd 2011, 6:01pm

Paras!

Here is a proposed Airborne Division OOB for late 1942/ early 1943.

Airborne Division
Airborne Division HQ with; 1 Ab Div HQ Defence Platoon (3 LMG, 1 2in mortar)
1 Ab Div Signals Regiment
1 Ab Div Field Security Section
1 Ab Provost (Military Police) Company (9 LMG)
1 Ab Div Postal Unit RE
1 Ab Div PRO Company
HQ Ab Div RE with; 2 Para Squadrons, 1 Ab Field Company
HQ Ab Div REME with; 1 Ab Div Workshop, 2 LAD Type A, 2 LAD Type B
Ab Div OFP RAOC
2 Para Field Ambulance Companies
1 Field Hospital
1 Field Hygiene Section
1 Field Kitchen
HQ Ab Div RASC with; 1 Ab Light Company, 2 Ab Div Composite Companies
HQ Ab Div RA with; 1 Forward Observation Unit, 1 Light Regiment RA with 3 batteries (eight 95mm pack howitzers each), 1 Anti-Tank Regiment RA with 3 batteries (eight 6pdr each), 1 Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA with 3 batteries (eight 20mm each)
2 Para Brigades each with;
1 Para Bde HQ with; 1 defence platoon (3 LMG, 1 2in mortar)
3 Para Battalions each with;
1 HQ Company with; 1 Admin platoon, 2 mortar platoons (4 3in mortars each), 1 anti-tank platoon (eight Boys AT rifles)
4 Rifle Companies each with; three platoons (9 LMG, 3 2in mortars, 3 Boys AT rifles each company)


Comments are welcome.

For now I'm avoiding gliders, first I'm probably biased against them, second they are vulnerable in anything but air superority conditions, third they are costly to develop, build and store in peacetime when they are one-use and one-role equipment, fourthly they can't be used in all terrains.
That means I have to rely on transport aircraft in peacetime and probably for a considerable time in a war until gliders are built and ready en masse. The RAF at the moment lacks any proper parachute-capable transports and certainly the numbers to lift this division in one bulk job. Within a few years the Hastings and Valetta will do the job but that's crystal ball gazing in terms of 1941/42. So for now an extra sqaudron of DH Hertfordshire transports seems likely.

40

Tuesday, November 22nd 2011, 7:30pm

I have to agree that gliders are a rather expensive solution to the issue of airborne insertion. In theory a glider can be re-used - if in reasonable condition after landing - but the do impose limitations; and they can be produced quickly.

However, the divisional TOE posits twenty four pack howitzers, twenty four antitank guns and twenty four flak guns - nearly 100 artillery pieces, their ammunition, and their tow vehicles - all of which would have to flown in by air transport once an airfield was secured. Until such time the paratroops will be limited to their small arms and light infantry weapons that can be air dropped. Without gliders the British airborne troops would find themselves in the same situation as the OTL German paratroop force did in Crete - taking heavy casualties and unable to secure their initial objectives.

Developing larger troop transport aircraft in the future will address some of these deficiencies (all things considered a larger aircraft can air drop larger stuff) but something the size of a Blackburn Beverly would be required to air drop artillery pieces and vehicles with reasonable success. Perhaps developing something akin to the Bristol Freighter would be a valid compromise approach - capable of rough field landings and capable of carrying outsize cargo.