WesWorld

Let's say the Chonburis- two groups of 3. That's enough to hunt a sub if needed, otherwise it's a low risk mission. If things heat up for some unforeseen reason, I can bring more escorts to the region. Unfortunately only a few of the S44 class are complete.

The Thai Admiralty can take on coordinating & tracking the northern portion of the route- Bangkok north, the Dutch from DEI to Bangkok.

It seems likely a SAE force will be operating from Dutch ports, and may choose to participate, but the composition suggests more an independent nuetrality patrol stance such as the Brits are implying they will do.

Your story says that Cpt Lo was on Baoji, which is listed as escaping at 100%, yet it says later that Lo died on his ship. Why?

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Originally posted by Sachmle
Your story says that Cpt Lo was on Baoji, which is listed as escaping at 100%, yet it says later that Lo died on his ship. Why?

Seppuku?

Thanks. will change to the correct. And no Seppuku involved. LOL

Germany would be very concerned regarding the expansion of submarine warfare. Mining of harbors can lead to indiscriminate losses to neutral shipping; and the shelling of targets ashore is a further dangerous escalation.

But I am more concerned about this 'short-lived December truce'; I do hope we will hear how it came about and what caused it to break down.

While mining of a belligerent's coastal waters is alarming from the perspective of a neutral trying to continue trade, it is one of the most logical steps the Philippine Navy can take at the moment.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
While mining of a belligerent's coastal waters is alarming from the perspective of a neutral trying to continue trade, it is one of the most logical steps the Philippine Navy can take at the moment.

From a military perspective, it is a very logical move.

However history teaches that actions driven by military logic can have unintended consequences that redound to the military arena. The OTL entry of the United States in response to the German resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare teaches that lesson most forcefully.

Which, I must point out, a lesson which has not been made in Wesworld; and also a lesson which took three years to fester in the historical example.

A most interesting engagement...

Unless China is able to counter Filipino land based air by some means, its garrison on Itu Aba will eventually be forced to surrender. This being the case, I find the tentativeness of the Chinese movements surprising. The convoy sailed with virtually no air cover - the one carrier assigned could have provided air cover, or function as an aircraft ferry, but not both. On the other hand, the willingness of Kong's force to engage their Filipino opponents despite the air threat is interesting. Perhaps the war will see more aggressive commanders advance in the Chinese naval hierarchy.

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Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
It seems likely a SAE force will be operating from Dutch ports, and may choose to participate, but the composition suggests more an independent nuetrality patrol stance such as the Brits are implying they will do.

True. Sorry for the delay but here is the SAE reaction.

The SAE states their neutrality in the conflict and does not feel threatened directly by either Filipino or Chinese actions. However, the SAE has vital interest in the region and undisturbed trade in general, so a task force will be deployed to make sure SAE interests are honored by the combatants and other powers now focusing on this particular part of the world. Especially the excessive reactions of some European powers and their detachment of large and powerful forces into the reagion is of some concern to the Admirality and has to be answered.

To support the Dutch initiative and to show the flag, the TF will be made of 2nd Battle Squadron with two Monarchs/two CLAA36 cruisers and 5th Carrier Squadron including one Thomas van Deen class fleet carrier, one CA and two DL (read heavy deep water DD). Of course the TF will be in company of some fleet train (2nd Support Flotilla, made of a large fleet support ship and a tender). All sailing from Durban. Plans are made to conduct some blue water maneuvers with Dutch forces.

Additionally the RSAN will deploy the 4th Escort Flotilla, made of eight LD29 class light destroyers. These units are meant to operate with the Dutch escorts in the war zone. The idea is to train Dutch/SAE crews to operate together and to release some pressure from the Dutch in general. 4th EF is currently part of SAE Indian Ocean forces and usually operates around the Seychelles. They will sail to the DEI by passing and refueling on the joint Indian/SAE naval base Diego Garcia.

It is interesting to see that the "Itu Aba Express" proved successful in running the Filipino blockade. It shows a willingness of the Chinese Navy to run the risk of high-speed operations in confined waters at night. It also shows the limitations of Filipino airpower - it is only capable of effective operations in daylight.

I am surprised that there has not yet been a Filipino attempt to disrupt "The Express"; certainly it has sufficient cruiser forces to operate in the interdiction role, and, with effective air superiority in the theatre of operations, it ought to be able remain in the potential battle area and await the arrival of "The Express".

Of course, this could also reflect a decision to use Filipino naval strength in other directions; which most certainly could prove interesting.

So the Chinese launched 104 planes to raid a major Philippine naval base and lost one of them? That's rather unrealistic, even considering how inept both the Philippine and Chinese navies have been to date.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
So the Chinese launched 104 planes to raid a major Philippine naval base and lost one of them? That's rather unrealistic, even considering how inept both the Philippine and Chinese navies have been to date.

You be surprised. Historically the US launched a raid in early 1942 that lost exactly one aircraft also. The Chinese are facing a surprised garrison with no aircrafts close by.

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
So the Chinese launched 104 planes to raid a major Philippine naval base and lost one of them? That's rather unrealistic, even considering how inept both the Philippine and Chinese navies have been to date.

I do have to agree that the Chinese strike was rather one-sided; not unlike the initial Japanese strikes on American air bases in the Philippines on 8 Dec 1941. The loss of one aircraft is lower than reasonable expectations, but suggests that Filipino air defences are in terrible condition, and the Filipino air search capability worn out; either that or a search for 'traitors' ought to begin.

One point though - only 83 aircraft actually participated in the strike, the remaining 21 aircraft flying CAP or antisubmarine patrol for the task force.

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Originally posted by perdedor99

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Originally posted by Brockpaine
So the Chinese launched 104 planes to raid a major Philippine naval base and lost one of them? That's rather unrealistic, even considering how inept both the Philippine and Chinese navies have been to date.

You be surprised. Historically the US launched a raid in early 1942 that lost exactly one aircraft also. The Chinese are facing a surprised garrison with no aircrafts close by.

The USN raids of early 1942 were not made against major fleet anchorages, though; and they usually put significantly more airpower into the job than the Chinese can do at the moment.

I'll have to concur with Brock here; Unless the Filipinos are criminally incompetant, this is a raid on the primary (if not, major) naval base, and (iirc) near a large population center. Nor is there the element of strategic suprise; both combatants are fully aware of the state of hostilities.

Tactical suprise may be possible, but such a lopsided encounter doesn't jive well.

Actually Subic was never the primary base in the Philippines. Cavite inside Manila Bay was . Subic was not even on the Bay and the only population center close by was Olongapo and even in the early 1990's was sleepy little town except for bars and other clubs that catered to military.

I closed the base in the early 1990's while I was stationed with the Marine Air Group 42. We left in the Belleau Woods. Subic is located northwest of Bataan Peninsula.

So we can say it was luck. After two months of no expected attacks they got complacent plus at the same time the Chinese airforce launched an attack into WW equivalent of Clark Air Base. Here the Chinese will be badly mauled and would be another reason for the lack of response by Filipino land-based aircrafts. Their aircrafts were busy destroying land-based bombers.

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Originally posted by perdedor99
...plus at the same time the Chinese airforce launched an attack into WW equivalent of Clark Air Base. Here the Chinese will be badly mauled and would be another reason for the lack of response by Filipino land-based aircrafts. Their aircrafts were busy destroying land-based bombers.

Um, was that in the writeup? That's kinda a very essential mitigating detail, methinks...

Subic may not be the primary Filipino base, but from the list of stuff that was there and damaged, it was a pretty major one. From the French prospective, they expected a lot better performance from the Philippine armed forces, who had significantly more war-fighting expertise left over from the Philippine Civil War.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
...plus at the same time the Chinese airforce launched an attack into WW equivalent of Clark Air Base. Here the Chinese will be badly mauled and would be another reason for the lack of response by Filipino land-based aircrafts. Their aircrafts were busy destroying land-based bombers.

Um, was that in the writeup? That's kinda a very essential mitigating detail, methinks...

Subic may not be the primary Filipino base, but from the list of stuff that was there and damaged, it was a pretty major one. From the French prospective, they expected a lot better performance from the Philippine armed forces, who had significantly more war-fighting expertise left over from the Philippine Civil War.

The raid to Rizal Field is only mentioned a couple of times and is on the notes. Is my next project before the end of the quarter. China launched a land-based bomber attack vs. the main airfield in Luzon at the same time of the Subic raid. This attack gets hit hard.

Subic historically was a major repair faciltiy with a floating dry-dock. In the majority of the case orange scenarios more importance was given to the area in Palawan as having anchorages capable of operating vs. Luzon.

I could increase the number of casualties a little bit but the main concern is that land-based aircrafts were away. Either flying interception of the Chinese Air Force bombers or scrambled to protect Manila area.

So Subic Bay has very little in the way of AA guns?