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1

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 4:50am

Official Communique of the Republic of France

The government of the Republic of France call upon the government of Argentina to renounce the policy of unprovoked aggression upon which they have embarked. In our judgement, this policy will fail, with disasterous consequences for the Argentine people.

2

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 5:00am

Official Communique from the Empire of Atlantis

The Empire of Atlantis condemns the actions of Agentina and would also like to echo the sentiments of France and Russia and call upon the government of Argentina to renounce the policy of unprovoked aggression upon which they have embarked. Such actions show complete lack of disreguard for international law.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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3

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 12:34pm

Caution!

"The Empire of Atlantis condemns the actions of Agentina and from the point on all ships registered to Argintina will be interned for the duration of hostility's and all Argentinian assets will be frozen. Upon cessasion of hostility's Atlantis will follow the League of Nations decission as to what to do with said assets and ships."

OOP: Are you guys who reacted like this or similar aware of the fact that this can in fact be seen as a declaration of war against Argentina?

None of the nations that expressed themselves this way so far are officially allied with Nordmark and there is no treaty forcing you to react like this.
On the other hand you´re severly damaging Argentina´s economy and blocking material/money that rightfully belongs to free argentine people, business men and companies.

If you want to express your neutrality in this conflict you should not react like this or at least that single sided. You should also intern and freeze nordmarkian ships and money.

As a player (not as the SAE!) I think most if not all of you are heavily overreacting to what seems to be a local conflict about some small islands. I really wonder if this would not bring in the USA on Argentina´s side....?

Cheers,

HoOmAn

4

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 12:53pm

Chances are that it would. In fact, I believe that in case of war, neutral nations will still allow merchant-vessels of the belligerent nations the usual access to its waters; the internment rules only apply to vessels of war, and navy auxiliaries. After all, in WW2, prior to the German invasion of Norway, there were lots of German merchant-vessels in Norwegian and Swedish waters, with no timelimit placed on their presence there.

HoOmAn

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5

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 2:01pm

Exactly!

Exactly...

What seems to be a local conflict is blown up to a full scale second world war, I think.

Only few countries would have a real interest in the situation or are forced to be involved:

Nordmark for being attacked.

Britain for being the one who sold the islands and because of the british citizens still there.

The SAE because of the close family ties to the Royal Family of Nordmark and some other aspects - one being that all this happens right before the SAEs front door and because Argentina is a long time enemy/rival of which the SAE once took a large chunk including its old capital Buenos Aires.

I can´t see for the life of it what kind of interest some powers in the Med have in this conflict for example. I can understand it from a players point of view - people want to be involved in interesting stories but from a WesWorlds point of view I simplý don´t understand it.

Ciao,

HoOmAn

6

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 2:09pm

Quoted

. In fact, I believe that in case of war, neutral nations will still allow merchant-vessels of the belligerent nations the usual access to its waters; the internment rules only apply to vessels of war, and navy auxiliaries


Indeed, and the 1907 Hague Convention allowed even vessels of war to enter neutral ports and obtain fuel sufficient to get to the nearest port in their home country. Such ships could not refuel in the same country for three months after that, but the point is, neutrals shouldn't be siezing assets or interning shipping and warships, unless they indeed intend to go to war.

7

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 2:22pm

And by that standard. I would think international powers could be forgiven for suspecting that Italy is planning to go to war against both Nordmark and Argentina....

Iberia, incidentally, could probably be said to have a justifiable vested interest in the ongoing events in the South Atlantic; Argentina may even have counted on Iberia being leaning more towards their cause; equally likely it would count on nations such as Greece, or India to support its cause, and to see it as justifiable.

As a player, I am primarily interested in keeping the conflict limited for now - I don't want to blow up the entire world, blowing up South America is quite enough as it is! Also, Nordmark as a warring nation would in this particular instance be so interested in being able to call the shots itself, that it will strongly discourage other nations from taking part in the war.

8

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 3:21pm

me? have an interest in what my former colonies are doing? 0:-) Never ...

Also, being a monarchy, I _really_ frown on regicide. Part of the strong reaction comes from that.

Bernhard

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Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 4:16pm

Quoted

I would think international powers could be forgiven for suspecting that Italy is planning to go to war against both Nordmark and Argentina....


Bring it on :) 3 are better than one.

In fact all Italy has done is to 'wash her hands' of the matter by telling both Nordmark and Argentina to 'get off her patch'.

10

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 6:59pm

Nevertheless, the actions taken by Italy are far more severe than the actions normally taken by a neutral nation with regards to nations which are at war with each other. Historically, Norway was in both world wars so much inclined towards the British position that Norway signed agreements obliging Norway to supply 40% of its merchant-fleet tonnage to the Entente, respectively the Western Allies, for carriage of war-materials - and YET Norway did not prevent German merchant-vessels from trading with Nroway as normal. Consequently, to the Nordmark government it will seem as though Italy is preparing for hostilities with Nordmark (and with Argentina).

11

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 7:02pm

Iwouldn't go that far but it definitely is a very unfriendly act amounting to a cessation of mercantile contact.

Bernhard

harry the red

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12

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 7:55pm

HoOmAn you asked the following

Only few countries would have a real interest in the situation or are forced to be involved

Britain for being the one who sold the islands and because of the British citizens still there.

I can´t see for the life of it what kind of interest some powers in the Med have in this conflict for example.


Well if you expect England to be concerned about a couple of odd thousand Falkland Islanders you can’t expect Greece to turn a blind eye to 50 odd thousand expatriates do you?

If heavy casualties were inflicted on the Argentinean Greek community, the ruling Greek government would find a lynch mob waiting at their front door.

In the real world of the 1920’s Argentina was one of the three big centres of the Greek Diaspora, south Africa was number six or seven if I remember correctly! The only fiction about the Greek Argentinean communities in Wesworld is their numbers, which are less numerus. My alternate Greece was industrialised decades earlier and the job and economical opportunities that came with it would have kept a large number of Greeks from emigrating. Thus the expatriate Greek communities worldwide would not have grown as large as they historically did.

Also by sending a heavy cruiser to join the two battle cruisers stationed in Atlantis and organising the evacuation of the Greek expatriates was staying true to character.
During the Bolshevik revolution in the real world, Greece had sent a sizeable chunk of its fleet into the black sea on the pretext of protecting the Greek Black sea communities living in the Caucuses and the Ukraine. They had also sent up to 150,000 troops. Unofficially they were also there to help the White Russians.

During the more recent past early to mid 90’s,to be more precise, Greece had sent a rescue mission once again into the black sea, this time to Georgia during that nations civile war. The rescue fleet consisted of a few Frigates and Destroyers, some LST and a small contingent of ground troops. I don’t remember the exact numbers of the forces involved but I do remember that few thousand Greeks were eventually evacuated. One final example would be the rescue mission sent to Albania during that countries economic collapse. While there they not only evacuated Greeks trapped in the capital but also embassy staff and civilians belonging to China Egypt Syria and some others that I no longer remember. Unfortunately as usual the American and British forces got all the news coverage in the western media, admittedly thou the Greeks were happy to keep a low profile.

The point of the above quick history lesson is that Greeks generally don’t care what the rest of the world gets up to as long as its leaves them and their relatives alone. Some trivia, every second Greek has a relative living in Australia, get the picture! Naturaly in Wesworld for the above mentioned reasons only every 5th Greek has a relative living in Australia,.

And HoOmAn don’t forget that there is a small but significant Greek community living in South Africa, don’t be surprised if the HSIS has operatives amongst them or any other expatriate community for that matter.:-)


Pengolodh you asked the following

Iberia, incidentally, could probably be said to have a justifiable vested interest in the ongoing events in the South Atlantic; Argentina may even have counted on Iberia being leaning more towards their cause; equally likely it would count on nations such as Greece, or India to support its cause, and to see it as justifiable.

Unlike other Nations Greece has taken a neutral stance with a slight Argentinean bias. Significantly it has not openly criticised Argentina on their actions nor frozen assets or impounded Argentinean shipping. Although it has helped some Nordmarkians that managed to get to the Greek embassy vacate the country for humanitarian reasons it has not offered any assistants or moral support in Nordmarks war against Argentina.

On the matter of trade between Greece and the warring nations its business as usual

Greek intentions in this war are limited to getting its civil shipping and expatriate community out of the war zone.

I don’t know, maybe I’m being too esoteric or subtle in my writing?

So I will repeat a very important part of my article and hope you read between the lines. I would also like to remind you that frets in diplomacy rarely work if they are not accompanied with a carrot. The question you should now be asking is what’s the carrot.

So far the Argentinean government has not hindered our attempts to evacuate our nationals and this seems to prove that an agreement has been reached with them. It has been alleged but not yet officially confirmed that the Argentinean ambassador and the military attaché the Athens embassy had a private meeting with our head of the joint chief of staff Air marshal Phillip Pyrrhus. Its been said that during this meeting our Air marshal explained that there will be dire consequences if Argentina tries to interfere with the evacuation.

At this point of time the last thing that Argentina needs is to also bring down on its head the displeasure of a second European nation. So far their has been little communication with Nordmark due to the extraordinary security clampdown that has been in place since the commencement of hostilities but it’s generally believed that Nordmark being a nation that respects international law will not interfere with what is purely a pre-emptive humanitarian effort.

13

Tuesday, October 7th 2003, 11:26pm

hmmm

....I can see your point about freezing assets and ships...so I have edited my diplomatic responce accordingly, hey I'm new to international law!
To critisize the players for an exagerated responce I think thats unfair, in all reality would Argentina be capable of sabotaging a Nordish distroyer in the manor that it was?, I don't think its likely but to some extent the story is quite sensational. Why would Nordmark be interested in a few small islands?, probably for the same reasons Britain was. As to the U.S. and UK I think we are worried too much about these nations. Early in the sim we wanted them as weakened nations so or own fictional nations could be stonger and that it would be beleivable for it to be that way.
As to the responce by Iberia and Atlantis keep in mind we have territory's in South America and would be quite consearned about a beligerant Argentina with a few battleships in their posession. I can't speak for Italy or Greece.