WesWorld

Oh, dear God!!! My eyes...do they deceive me? Is that....it is, it's a true NelRod....wow!

If a butterfly in Kansas flaps it's wings it causes a typhoon in Japan, so the saying goes. So what happens when this things broadside overpressure hits?

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
BC Glory seems to be a real killer. Or she got lucky....

Is there a more detailed report about that battle available?

I bit of both I suppose, both Vengeance and Glory recieved experienced crew from the Arcturus class BC's once they were retired as a result of Cleito.

Sadly I never got around to writing some detailed reports of my own in time to tag with this post.

Quoted

1245
Airships Akron and Macon are attacked by 4 "flying discs" with RCNAS roundels. Macon's fighters counter, but Akron is deemed lost, and Macon forced to return to Veracruz for repairs. 1 F9C lost also lost, and 2 RCNAS "Frisbee"s lost.

Hmmm. Flying Saucers.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
BC Glory seems to be a real killer. Or she got lucky....

Glory got somewhat lucky, in that Saratoga was already ruled damaged by the airstrikes, whereas Glory was at full strength and had a stronger cruiser escort.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Is there a more detailed report about that battle available?

I fail at narratives, sorry. :\ I will have a basic summary upcoming, along with a more detailed analysis of the collision tho.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Hmmm. Flying Saucers.

Nanu Nanu?

By the way... it looks like the Atlantean destroyer Dent is living up to her name! I propose her nickname be changed to "Dented Dent".

Heh, I HAD to use Dent when I was swapping around DesDivs for the various fleet units and had to pick an unfortunate victim. Gives her a unique opertunity to recieve a few more nicknames!
Also, it seems she hasn't lost her bow in this incident?
Shin?

So, the phrase "Shin, take a bow" would not be out of order at this point?

I don't no if I should groan or spit out my coffee in hysterical laughter after that one!

If the coffee comes out your nose you'll probably do both.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Also, it seems she hasn't lost her bow in this incident?
Shin?

She has, I just didn't put the detailed damage reports on the basic timeline. I'll post the summary now, tho.

[SIZE=4]Operational Summary:[/SIZE]
Excersize commenced at 0600 15 December. Black Force Naval groups depart Kingston while air squadrons from Key West and Kingston embark to support Black Force's intent to force the Yucatan channel later that evening. Blue Fleet seperates into squadrons to cover as much area as possible, with the Mexican Coastal Defense group tasked with close support of the Coatzacoalcos region.

Air Raids from Key West devestate Cancun, with a follow-up strike from HMS Majestic conclusively removing the base from the excersize. Black Force scouts locate small Mexican Navy squadron led by cruiser Veracruz, which is promptly Neutralized by air strikes from Alioth and Fearless.

American airships detect their Lantean counterparts via CXZ device, which results in a series of raids conducted by their onboard fighter-scouts. Match is relatively equal; Akron carries no planes, but Macon's expanded air capacity makes the force equal to Meropis and Antilles. Advantage seems to be with Blue Force, which maintains contact through radar, and attempts to vector fighters from Merida to assist. However, Meridan ighters fail to make contact due to communications error. Flight operations halted at dusk, the 1st day's engagements resulting in a draw. Both sides lose 2 fighters each, and Akron uses CXZ data to evade further contact during the night.

Black Fleet forces the Yucatan Passage at night as planned, but is raided by Mexican Torpedo boats. Two cruisers judged crippled/sunk, damage to Hood reduces her speed for the remainder of the excersize. Fearless group detached to raid Merida at dawn, with the other two Scouting groups seperate for scouting operations, but still attached to the Battle Force.

Akron detects the main body of Black Fleet a few hours before dawn, and Blue Force awaits visual confirmation at dawn, at which point Blue Force moves Northeast to close on Black Force.

Fearless airgroup raids Merida, but not before Merida launches a strike on Black Force, which is effectively defended by fighters from Hermes. One CL sunk, Memnon loses use of B turret, Inflexible suffers a temporary engineering casualty. Merida removed from scenario by followup strike from Key West bombers, Fearless group resumes station with Black Force.

Second bomber group from Key West runs into the American Airships and radios their position to Black Force, then diverts to a secondary target; Coatzacaolcos Canal Zone. Hermes temporarily detached from Black Force to conduct independant flight operations, which later results in a raid on the airships, and the loss of Akron, and Macon retiring for resupply and repair. Lantean airships resume their own scouting operations unhindered.

At nightfall of the 2nd day, both sides independantly decide not to seek night engagements; Blue Force returns to a point further in the Gulf to ensure they're not outflanked during the night untill Texas picks up Black Force's Main Body and Alioth groups on XAF. Majestic and Fearless groups are not detected, being further North and East, respectively. Majestic group dispatched to raid Tampico at Dawn in hopes of repeating the success of the Merida strike the previous day.

Action commences at Dawn with Majestic raiding Tampico, Lantean Airships spotting smoke from Blue Force, and Blue force squadrons attacking Black Force's Main Body and Alioth groups while Blue Force and Black Force's main body's begin exchanging gunfire. Black Force air squadrons launch as soon as they have targets, which includes Majestic immediately steaming east to reinforce the rest of Black Force. Battlecruiser Glory and cruisers detached from Fearless group to raid the Constellation group.

Black Force's battleline is able to inflict enough damage on Blue Force to use their superior speed to open the range and maintain a tactical advantage with their longer-range weapons. After 5 hours of battle, Blue Force's main body judged to no longer be an effective fighting force, and retires to Campeche. Yorktown and Constellation groups also eliminated. Black force is likewise damaged, but still operational. The rest of the day consists of Ark Royal avoiding contact with Black Force, and raids between Black Force and shore bases. Mexican Navy squadron begins to close on Black Force, intending to seek a Night engagement with the Main Body.

Not expecting a night engagement, the Mexican Midnight interception sows a great deal of confusion amongst Black Force, with ensuing miscommunication and unready crews resulting in several collisions between battleships in Black Force as they attempt to manuvear to engage the Mexican units. Excersize temporarily suspended until dawn to ascertain damage.

Excersize formally concluded at Dawn when Airship Pegasus unexpectedly arrives over Coatzacoalcos from the Southeast, and lands Canadian Rangers near the Atlantic Locks.

[SIZE=3]Conclusions:[/SIZE]
1) The importance and effect of Radar on this excersize cannot be understated. Blue Force's use of it enabled them to gain tactical and strategic advantaged at various points in the excersize, but their reliance on it also resulted in Fearless's group going undetected twice, which resulted in the loss of Merida, and the later raid by Glory and cruisers on Contellation and her escorts.

2) The airborne mounting of Radar seems more efficient than shipborne radar, as it covers more range and the platform is more mobile. However, the platform is also quite vulnerable; Akron currently lacks any means of self protection from even a modest attack. Also, better means of command and control must be developed to allow for the efficient but secure flow of information from these platforms.

3) The "Scouting groups" of the excersize engaged in very little scouting activity, but performed mostly as long-range strike platforms. Black Force made considerable use of it's carriers to eliminate Mexican airfields in detached operations. Blue Force's carriers remained tied to the battlefleet which nullified their speed and mobility, and later resulted in their loss as they were relatively easy to locate once the Main Force was found.

4) Aside from the aforementioned Radar contacts, almost all enemy contacts were located from Airships or their attached scouts, with some other contacts being done by shore-based scouting aircraft. Given their great availibility, the lack of any contacts by ship-board scouting aircraft brings question to their effectiveness in that role in operations near land or with other aerial support.

5) Black Force benefited greaty from having organic air cover at all times, independant of the activities of the large carriers activities at any specific time.

6) The nighttime mexican torpedo boat raid of 15-16 December was moderately effective, but suicidal, as no boats survived to return to base.

7) Greater steps must be taken to ensure better coordination and communication between differing national forces when operating cooperatively. This panel suggests work begin on a standardized system of communications protocols and hardware for NATO member states.

[SIZE=3]Appendix A: 18 December Collision report[/SIZE]
At 0000 18 December, Black Force was not at battlestations, having concluded intense combat operations each of the previous three days, with nightfall being considered an ideal time to conduct crew rest and rotation to be fresh for the following day's operations. Nearly all the senior officers (including all ship's captains and flag officers) were asleep, with no clear chain of command for the fleet having been established with their absense.

Mexican Navy units appeared unexpectedly at midnight at close range, illuminating Black Force with spotlights and starshells. Junior officers in command of Black Force's ships vaccilate with no manuvearing attempted while crews were mustered and senior officers woken.

At 0005, with no communications being recieved from flagship Repulse, Captain F.T.B. Tower of HMS Hood attempted to assume command of the fleet, and ordered an immediate starboard turn to open the range with the Mexican navy units.

Several ships either miss this order, or are unable to recieve it due to the cotninued confusion and no precedent for the fleet to be receiving orders from Hood during the excersize, particularly the ships ahead of her in the battleline.

As a result, these ships (including Renown, Repulse, and Memnon) continue on course while the fleet around them turns to starboard.

Renown fails to notice Hood's turn until it is too late to avoid a collision, and Renown's port bow strikes a glancing blow to Hood's starboard quarter. Damage is initially assumed to be minimal, but it is soon discovered that Hood's #4 screw struck Renown more seriously below he waterline, resulting in flooding in the bow, and the destruction of the screw and damage to #4's shaft and mountings.

Invincible complies with the turn order, but in the darkness her helmsmen does not see Repulse alongside until the turn is irreversible. Invincible strikes Repulse hard amidships with both ships held fast to each other until the following morning. Invincible leaves a portion of her bow wedged in Repulse's side, while Repulse suffers from an initially severe list, but soon recovered to a 7° list to port. Repulse also suffers moderate shock damage, and loses a great deal of fuel from the port tanks ruptured by the ramming.

Memnon fails to see the order to turn, but does notice the collisions occuring ahead of her in the battleline. Memnon conducts an emergency turn to starboard to avoid ramming the now immobile Invincible, which in turn causes Emathion alongside her to veer to starboard to avoid a collision. Unfortunately, the destroyer Dent finds itself in Emathion's path and is struck hard between A and B mounts at 20 knots which results in Dent's bow being cleaved off and begining to sink rapidly before being snagged on Emathion's starboard anchor for a few minutes before the chain gives way and snaps, giving crew in the bow time to escape. The remainder of the ship drags along Emathions port bow for several dozen meters until finally seperating and drifting off. Quick actions b Dent's crew result in watertight integrity being restored before the ship founders, and the reduced readiness aboard ship ensured that only a dozen men were in the bow when struck; Fortunately all were rescued. Dent was towed stern-first to Veracruz for the fitting of a temporary bow to allow her to return to Atlantis for repairs.

Lastly, while manuvearing to avoid the pileup ahead of them, Menelaus veers to port and strikes a relatively minor broad-side blow to Valencia, with no leaks or major damage reported.

The authors of this report find it hard to single out any one man or ship as being at fault for this incident, however it feels the following issues should be addressed in the event of further joint operations;

1) A clear chain of command must be established as either moving down the chain of command for the Flagship, or to the next senior commander of the other warships in the force.

2) While this was an excersize, and most officers concluded there would be a "Gentleman's agreement" to avoid nighttime encounters, it is obvious the Mexican Navy did not agree, and nor should any such assumption be made in wartime.

Well, it doesn't look like anyone was killed in the collisions... that was a bright side.

The Admiralty will look very closely at the results of this excercise and maybe now the lethargy over naval radar (or RDF as the RN would call it) will end and some British made eqiupment will be produced alongside the RAF programme.

No casulties but the Admiral's suite on board Hood was trashed and his stock of spirits smashed!

OK, so maybe I was wrong. Flag signals aren't hazardous to your health, even worse, it's hazardous to good liquor!!

It is obvious that the Mexicans are to blame for this accident.

Well DF does love mayhem.

... which is why the Mexicans are to blame for this accident.