WesWorld

On slightly wider and deeper dimentions I can get a ship that can put 9 x 15" guns to sea, but she'll cost more that the Indians want to spend at 31,500 tons light. Also she's not a cruiser.

I could try to get the Indians a larger vessel, but I wanted to be within Chile's restrictions as well (Type 3 slips). Also they requested a large cruiser that was armed within a type range and a tonnage range to combat the forthcoming Itallian Armored Cruisers. Eight 12 inch or 11 inch should be effective agianst six 12 inch guns, though the Italian ship has all guns forward while the Indian stlye is more balanced.

If the Indian's wanted to try for larger caliber guns, say to match their own battleships or even the 15 inch guns possible by treaty on a light battlecruiser, they'd be restricted to six guns or less. The ship's armor and range might need to be reduced to bring it ti around 22,000 tons light. (15 inch guns on 22,000 tons gets you four guns, 32 knots, and thin armor).

This is about as low as I'd think the Indians would want to go in terms of number of main battery cannons and still have 22,000 tons light.

Prat Type (350 mm)

India Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
21,995 t light; 22,993 t standard; 24,790 t normal; 26,128 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
219.46 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m x 7.62 m

Armament:
6 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (8x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.38" / 35.1 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.32lbs / 0.60kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,825 lbs / 4,003 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 455.00 ft / 138.68 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 455.00 ft / 138.68 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 126,005 shp / 94,000 Kw = 31.82 kts
Range 14,200nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,234 tons)

Complement:
987 - 1,284

Cost:
£11.921 million / $47.682 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,103 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 6,737 tons, 27.2 %
- Belts: 2,111 tons, 8.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 421 tons, 1.7 %
- Armament: 1,304 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,737 tons, 11.0 %
- Conning Tower: 165 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,492 tons, 14.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,538 tons, 42.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,795 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
30,262 lbs / 13,726 Kg = 23.1 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.4 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.605
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.54 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.23 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.11 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Mid (50 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Stern: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Average freeboard: 25.45 ft / 7.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 235.0 %
Waterplane Area: 49,307 Square feet or 4,581 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 158 lbs/sq ft or 771 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.58
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Thanks, Ithekro. I'll use these for comparison to my own designs as I putter about.

Ithreko, you want this instead. I've never managed to sim it properly but the 23000ton version with 6x381mm comes out nicely.

I doubt that vessel would have the range or seakeeping the Chileans would require of the Pacific Ocean and rounding the Horn if needed. However my design is not as fast either, only 26-27 knots, but armored to counter 15 inch shells with an older armor scheme (not inclined much). Modifications might be in order, but I still have a little time left to play with it and not make it a 40,000 ton monster, but instead maybe a 33,000 ton standard battleship.

The Indians could have a ship similar to the one you show, but they'd need to take a serious cut in range to come close to the tonnage range they'd like for this large cruiser requirement.

Something like that design would be interesting, but I can only imagine it must indeed have very short range, flimsy armor, a weak hull, or some combination thereof.

I'd probably prefer 6x35 cm, for ease of logistics. I'm not sure a CA or ACR would notice the difference.

I'm also evaluating the "What d'ya mean there's still a treaty" option, with re-engining of the Akbar class battleships.

"'What d'ya mean there's still a treaty' option"

Well, there was that Midrange Tonnage thing....The Prat Type might actually fit in that.

There's a reason I voted for that, and it's the same reason others voted against it.

Shoot! Why did I have to open my mouth and suggest bigger guns!

*Jedi Mind Trick* You dont need 35cm guns, look at Blucher. *Jedi Mind Trick*

I've looked at Blucher. With 35 cm guns.

http://xoomer.alice.it/bk/NWS/Regia_Mari…2500_4_381.html

You want this instead. 4x381 and 33.5knts on 12500tons

This may come as a shock, but I don't think I do.

Hmmm...Glorious's smaller cousin. I managed 4 guns on 22,000 tons but you have maybe 9 inches of armor and start running into problems with the block coefficient being really really low.

I just knocked one together for giggles in springstyle (didn't save the report) and got it on 12,700 t standard, with a grand total of 5 cm armor on the belt, deck, and turrets. Plus poor seakeeping and the "ends-on fire only" warning.

Is this a news or a ship design thread?

Just curious..... :o)

It transmogrified from one to the other.

Information as to what the Indians might do is news. That we are going about it in an unusual fashion makes it more design than news, but new designs are new and the news is new...so therefore the designs are news....for those of you that find algebra useful for such things.

(A=B B=C therefore A=C which in this case is false, but that is logic if I recall.)

However...news...

June 30, 1933

Tochiro Oyama has offered his company's skills to India to realize there projected large cruiser needs in a post treaty world.

Speaking of Glorious Ive thinkered with the idea of buying both of them and converting them back to cruisers with either 8x12" or 6x13.5" and a proper 5" belt. However our reconstruction rules would make the price too high.

If India decides for the 35cm guns it will make my decision process alot easier.

Meh, I wouldn't even bother. Just find some large caliber turrets somewhere and design a Vanguardish type ship to utilize the turrets.

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
Information as to what the Indians might do is news. That we are going about it in an unusual fashion makes it more design than news, but new designs are new and the news is new...so therefore the designs are news....

I just find it interesting to watch the iterations. I could find parallels for most of the designs in the various ships I explored for 1931. Except of course I tried 6x345mm instead of 6x350mm