WesWorld

The KM, in 1938, is feeling CL poor with the transfer of the Karlsruhe's to Turkey and no new construction CLs since the Leipzigs of 1929. Given the success of the General Belgrano design for Argentina, a cousin of that design and the Peruvian Quechua is being commissioned for the KM.


Ersatz Karlsruhe, Germany Light Cruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
9,790 t light; 10,224 t standard; 11,215 t normal; 12,007 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
644.64 ft / 623.36 ft x 63.98 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
196.48 m / 190.00 m x 19.50 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
15 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x3 guns), 100.31lbs / 45.50kg shells, 1938 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,963 lbs / 890 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
16 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 77,647 shp / 57,925 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,783 tons

Complement:
544 - 708

Cost:
£4.795 million / $19.178 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 250 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 2,593 tons, 23.1 %
- Belts: 917 tons, 8.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 606 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,006 tons, 9.0 %
- Conning Tower: 64 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,126 tons, 19.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,661 tons, 41.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,424 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,955 lbs / 8,144 Kg = 174.4 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.74 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m (20.51 ft / 6.25 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Stern: 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Average freeboard: 21.70 ft / 6.62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.4 %
Waterplane Area: 27,632 Square feet or 2,567 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 531 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

30 tons reserved for radar

80 tons reserved for aircraft

40 tons reserved for reload torpedoes

Damn, now the Germans have 15 guns the RN demands 18!

The Belgrano design is perhaps the most commercially successful WW has seen and I'm not surprised that the KM has finally ordered a variant. It's a powerful design.

It has been quite a successful design, especially when you consider that it has been sold on a purely commercial basis: the purchasers aren't buying the design because it keeps commonality with an ally or something like that.


I noticed there was an error in the hull-form, fixed now:

Ersatz Karlsruhe, Germany Light Cruiser laid down 1938

Displacement:
9,790 t light; 10,224 t standard; 11,215 t normal; 12,007 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
644.64 ft / 623.36 ft x 63.98 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
196.48 m / 190.00 m x 19.50 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
15 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x3 guns), 100.31lbs / 45.50kg shells, 1938 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centerline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,963 lbs / 890 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
16 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4.72" / 120 mm 405.18 ft / 123.50 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.76" / 70 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -
5th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 77,647 shp / 57,925 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,783 tons

Complement:
544 - 708

Cost:
£4.795 million / $19.178 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 250 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 2,594 tons, 23.1 %
- Belts: 917 tons, 8.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 607 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,006 tons, 9.0 %
- Conning Tower: 64 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 2,126 tons, 19.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,655 tons, 41.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,424 tons, 12.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 165 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
17,888 lbs / 8,114 Kg = 173.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.74 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.82 ft / 6.65 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Stern: 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Average freeboard: 21.71 ft / 6.62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.9 %
Waterplane Area: 27,632 Square feet or 2,567 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 530 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

35 tons reserved for radar

80 tons reserved for aircraft

40 tons reserved for reload torpedoes

Quoted

Damn, now the Germans have 15 guns the RN demands 18!

Why not go insane and go for 24?

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Damn, now the Germans have 15 guns the RN demands 18!

The RCN can still dust off some of it's old 16 and 20 gun designs at 8k tons if the Crown desires.

Found this design in my files...

RN's welcome to use it.

HMAS Sydney, Australia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
12,513 t light; 13,082 t standard; 15,344 t normal; 17,154 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
697.09 ft / 690.00 ft x 69.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
212.47 m / 210.31 m x 21.03 m x 7.32 m

Armament:
21 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (7x3 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x8 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,958 lbs / 1,342 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.90" / 150 mm 370.00 ft / 112.78 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 1.20" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.40" / 61 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100,913 shp / 75,281 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,071 tons

Complement:
689 - 896

Cost:
£5.854 million / $23.416 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 370 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 3,233 tons, 21.1 %
- Belts: 936 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 819 tons, 5.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,425 tons, 9.3 %
- Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,867 tons, 18.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,019 tons, 39.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,831 tons, 18.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 0.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,699 lbs / 10,296 Kg = 210.2 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.470
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.50 ft / 0.76 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (17 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (19 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 21.54 ft / 6.57 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.0 %
Waterplane Area: 32,097 Square feet or 2,982 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 586 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.27
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Looks like we should become the Empire of Turret Farms!

I wasn't seriously looking at 18 guns or even 24 but just contemplating the public response. Saying that the conditions for looking at quads are becoming clearer. Something like an OTL Belfast as planned with the quad 6in might be worth tinkering with.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Something like an OTL Belfast as planned with the quad 6in might be worth tinkering with.

Or buy Italian...

Need a bit of a fatter hull in order to accommodate the quads, though it helps with other topweight issues as well.