WesWorld

Ah, very useful. I will consider it when I redesign my destroyers in the coming years, or modify the design to reflect that sort of number of shells.

Quoted

Ithekro - Your design goes for number of shells in the air; mine, for added punch in each shell.

Actually I was thinking about stability and steadiness along with seakeeping of my destroyer rather then number of mounts, as I can only get four on a broadside with the class ship. The second or third ship might have the gun placements changed to allow for more broadside fire.

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
250 rounds for the guns. Had to trade the single 100mm AA gun for a twin 57mm, cut the speed by .15kt, and the range by 500nm...

Filipino Cerceta-class destroyer, laid down 1926

Still a heavily armed DD with a decent range. She´s a little bit slow for my liking and I would have chosen to build a larger unit to get a better rating for seakeeping but then again: DDs are wet and not that nice a place to be on in heavy weather...

You could try thinner face plates for the ships main guns which should save you some weight. 40mm is rather heavy for a man operated mount. I also wonder what you need 36ts misc weight for on a ship where every single ton counts. If we assume a depth charge to weight approx. 250kg 25ts are suffice for 100 DCs - and that´s a lot for a 1920s design.

Cheers,

HoOmAn

The misc. weight is there both for "future expansion", and also to permit the ships to serve as fast minelayers if necessary (78 1,000-lb mines).

As for the armour...I was thinking that the mounts would be electrically operated (with manual backup of course). 40mm shields are actually 10mm under the Filipino standard for a 130mm gun.

I'm using these rules-of-thumb for gun armour -
130mm guns - 50mm shields
100mm - 30mm
57mm - 25mm
40mm - 20mm
25mm - 15mm

I still think 35-50mm is a little bit too much for a shield. Has anybody some data at hand?

It has been decided by the MdF Design Office that the final Cerceta-class destroyer, PRS Paiño, which will be built in 1929, will have a revised armament fit. Instead of the 4 x 130mm of the rest of the class, Paiño will carry 8 x 100mm and serve as an experimental Anti-Manz...*ahem* Anti-Aircraft Destroyer.

Displacement:
1,270 t light; 1,338 t standard; 1,463 t normal; 1,563 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
333.13 ft / 325.79 ft x 31.50 ft x 12.80 ft (normal load)
101.54 m / 99.30 m x 9.60 m x 3.90 m

Armament:
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
2 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1929 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 270 lbs / 122 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Depth charges @ 550lb each: 100
or Mines @ 1,000lb each: 78

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm - -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 33,495 shp / 24,987 Kw = 33.85 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 225 tons)

Complement:
117 - 153

Cost:
£0.606 million / $2.423 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 32 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 24 tons, 1.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 24 tons, 1.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 742 tons, 50.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 436 tons, 29.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 193 tons, 13.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
337 lbs / 153 Kg = 11.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.75

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.390
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.34 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.18 ft / 6.15 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Mid (35 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m (10.33 ft / 3.15 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.33 ft / 3.15 m
- Stern: 10.33 ft / 3.15 m
- Average freeboard: 12.88 ft / 3.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.7 %
Waterplane Area: 6,520 Square feet or 606 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 59 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 171 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 1.66
- Overall: 0.57
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Quoted

Instead of the 4 x 130mm of the rest of the class, Paiño will carry 8 x 100mm and serve as an experimental Anti-Manz...*ahem* Anti-Aircraft Destroyer.

Do keep on using the correct words. Do not start using the corrupt words... yet.
^_^

An AA destroyer in 1929 seems a waste of resources to me. It is a good design but does it serve a good purpose?

The Filipinos can´t affort that many destroyers if I´m not entirely wrong but they have a very large and difficult area to patrol. So any specialized unit seems odd to me.

This design is lacking weight per broadside compared to other DDs and fast escorts. Sure, 8x 10cm seems impressive on first hand but then again, using both historical knowledge and hindsight, a 10cm gun is hardly powerful enough to stop an attacker of some size or stop him from escaping nor is it powerful enough as AA gun (as the British and Germans had to learn in WW2) at long range. Add to that that a DD is not a good gun platform (too lively) anyway (dispite what SS says) I wonder if your crews will be capable of hitting anything at all with those guns.....

I´d take another unit of the original design with its SP-guns.

Hmm, good points.

Paiño may well be built to the "original" design...



*hides 1938 Flakkreuzer design armed with 10 x 100mm*