WesWorld

Quoted

Displacement:
404 t light; 421 t standard; 452 t normal; 477 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
183,46 ft / 170,60 ft x 23,62 ft x 7,55 ft (normal load)
55,92 m / 52,00 m x 7,20 m x 2,30 m

Armament:
2 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
on centreline forward, 1 raised gun
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 45 lbs / 20 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
2 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,98" / 25 mm 0,39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5.974 shp / 4.457 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 2.000nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 56 tons

Complement:
48 - 63

Cost:
£0,282 million / $1,128 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 1,2%
Armour: 3 tons, 0,7%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 3 tons, 0,7%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 149 tons, 33,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 166 tons, 36,7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 48 tons, 10,6%
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 17,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
295 lbs / 134 Kg = 14,2 x 3,5 " / 88 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
Metacentric height 0,6 ft / 0,2 m
Roll period: 12,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 48 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,13

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,520
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,22 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15,28 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 75 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2,62 ft / 0,80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Forecastle (20%): 17,06 ft / 5,20 m (16,73 ft / 5,10 m aft of break)
- Mid (50%): 16,73 ft / 5,10 m (10,83 ft / 3,30 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20%): 10,83 ft / 3,30 m
- Stern: 10,83 ft / 3,30 m
- Average freeboard: 13,90 ft / 4,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 136,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,5%
Waterplane Area: 2.845 Square feet or 264 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 117 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,51
- Longitudinal: 10,51
- Overall: 0,68
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Breakdown of Misc. Weight 80tons:
6 DC mortars @ 25 tons
40 DC's @ 1 ton
15 tons radar

Quoted

Displacement:
2.142 t light; 2.284 t standard; 2.483 t normal; 2.643 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
377,19 ft / 360,89 ft x 37,07 ft x 11,81 ft (normal load)
114,97 m / 110,00 m x 11,30 m x 3,60 m

Armament:
4 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (2x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 266 lbs / 121 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 600
8 (2x4) - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2,17" / 55 mm 1,38" / 35 mm -

- Armour deck: 0,39" / 10 mm, Conning tower: 0,98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 39.475 shp / 29.448 Kw = 32,00 kts
Range 2.350nm at 19,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 358 tons

Complement:
175 - 228

Cost:
£1,709 million / $6,834 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 33 tons, 1,3%
Armour: 97 tons, 3,9%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 22 tons, 0,9%
- Armour Deck: 71 tons, 2,9%
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0,2%
Machinery: 986 tons, 39,7%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 926 tons, 37,3%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 341 tons, 13,7%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 4,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1.403 lbs / 636 Kg = 22,4 x 5,0 " / 127 mm shells or 0,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
Metacentric height 1,4 ft / 0,4 m
Roll period: 13,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,56

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,550
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,73 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21,61 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 7,22 ft / 2,20 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24,93 ft / 7,60 m
- Forecastle (20%): 24,61 ft / 7,50 m (24,28 ft / 7,40 m aft of break)
- Mid (65%): 24,28 ft / 7,40 m (16,73 ft / 5,10 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20%): 16,73 ft / 5,10 m
- Stern: 16,73 ft / 5,10 m
- Average freeboard: 21,73 ft / 6,62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 146,2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,5%
Waterplane Area: 9.721 Square feet or 903 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 40 lbs/sq ft or 195 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,51
- Longitudinal: 5,72
- Overall: 0,65
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Breakdown of Misc. Weight 100tons:
25 tons radar
16 reload torpedoes @ 2tons
23 tons storage
20 tons hydrophone

Quoted

Displacement:
1.187 t light; 1.265 t standard; 1.556 t normal; 1.788 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
300,96 ft / 293,64 ft x 31,82 ft x 12,14 ft (normal load)
91,73 m / 89,50 m x 9,70 m x 3,70 m

Armament:
6 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (3x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm guns in single mounts, 0,06lbs / 0,03kg shells, 1946 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 185 lbs / 84 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 450

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,18" / 30 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 11.266 shp / 8.405 Kw = 25,00 kts
Range 12.000nm at 13,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 523 tons

Complement:
123 - 161

Cost:
£0,712 million / $2,846 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 1,5%
Armour: 15 tons, 1,0%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 15 tons, 1,0%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 281 tons, 18,1%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 668 tons, 42,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 369 tons, 23,7%
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 12,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2.300 lbs / 1.043 Kg = 75,4 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,00
Metacentric height 0,9 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 14,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,73 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23,95 ft / 7,30 m
- Forecastle (20%): 23,62 ft / 7,20 m (23,29 ft / 7,10 m aft of break)
- Mid (55%): 23,29 ft / 7,10 m (12,47 ft / 3,80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20%): 13,78 ft / 4,20 m (13,12 ft / 4,00 m before break)
- Stern: 14,44 ft / 4,40 m
- Average freeboard: 18,92 ft / 5,77 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 186,2%
Waterplane Area: 6.357 Square feet or 591 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 162%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 199 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,63
- Longitudinal: 8,49
- Overall: 0,81
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Breakdown of Misc. Weight 200tons:
Sonar: 20tons
Radar: 20tons
AS Outfit 50tons (AS Mortars, DC rails, DC)
Growth: 110tons

Quoted

Displacement:
484 t light; 520 t standard; 614 t normal; 689 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
213,23 ft / 207,02 ft x 29,53 ft x 8,79 ft (normal load)
64,99 m / 63,10 m x 9,00 m x 2,68 m

Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1946 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 83 lbs / 38 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 480

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1,38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5.147 shp / 3.840 Kw = 22,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 169 tons

Complement:
61 - 80

Cost:
£0,310 million / $1,239 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 10 tons, 1,7%
Armour: 6 tons, 0,9%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 4 tons, 0,6%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 129 tons, 20,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 239 tons, 38,9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 131 tons, 21,3%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 16,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
748 lbs / 340 Kg = 21,2 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 12,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,44

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0,400
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14,39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 17,06 ft / 5,20 m
- Forecastle (20%): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m (15,09 ft / 4,60 m aft of break)
- Mid (55%): 10,17 ft / 3,10 m
- Quarterdeck (20%): 10,17 ft / 3,10 m
- Stern: 10,17 ft / 3,10 m
- Average freeboard: 12,25 ft / 3,73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102,0%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136,4%
Waterplane Area: 3.763 Square feet or 350 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 138%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 167 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,66
- Longitudinal: 4,28
- Overall: 0,80
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Breakdown of Misc. Weight 100tons:

MWS-Version:
20 tons Minesweeping gear
10 tons Minerail
70 mines @1 ton

or:

ASW-Version:
2 DC thrower @ 10 tons
2 DC rails @ 7.5 tons
100 DC reload; DC 50kg = 5tons
10 tons sonar
10 tons hydrophone
40 tons storage

Quoted

Point 1: Hull strength. - a) Relative composite hull strength should not drop below 1.00 except for the light fast combattants (<6000 tons standard; >24kn)

Quoted from "Rooijen10"

The Dagu class is not that outdated I think... the Chinese must have something sinister in mind for those ships. :)

One thing with that 'replacement' design is that it has DCs and DC mortars, but no means listed to track down submarines (edit: Bruce beat me to that one).

Quoted from "BruceDuncan"

I see three classes of issues with this quartet of proposals.
Item 1
The multi-purpose sloop violates the Gentlemens' Rules:

Quoted

Point 1: Hull strength. - a) Relative composite hull strength should not drop below 1.00 except for the light fast combattants (<6000 tons standard; >24kn)

With an Overall strength of 0.80 and a speed of only 22 knots she does not qualify as a light fast combattant.

Quoted

Displacement:
511 t light; 548 t standard; 614 t normal; 668 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
213,23 ft / 207,02 ft x 29,53 ft x 8,79 ft (normal load)
64,99 m / 63,10 m x 9,00 m x 2,68 m

Armament:
2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1946 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
2 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1946 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1946 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 83 lbs / 38 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 480

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1,38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 7.449 shp / 5.557 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 3.500nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 120 tons

Complement:
61 - 80

Cost:
£0,374 million / $1,494 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 10 tons, 1,7%
Armour: 6 tons, 0,9%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 4 tons, 0,6%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 186 tons, 30,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 209 tons, 34,0%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 103 tons, 16,8%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 16,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
388 lbs / 176 Kg = 11,0 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 12,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,14

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0,400
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,01 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14,39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 17,06 ft / 5,20 m
- Forecastle (20%): 15,75 ft / 4,80 m (15,09 ft / 4,60 m aft of break)
- Mid (55%): 10,17 ft / 3,10 m
- Quarterdeck (20%): 10,17 ft / 3,10 m
- Stern: 10,17 ft / 3,10 m
- Average freeboard: 12,25 ft / 3,73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131,9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136,4%
Waterplane Area: 3.763 Square feet or 350 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 146 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,56
- Longitudinal: 3,69
- Overall: 0,68
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Breakdown of Misc. Weight 100tons:
Mine Warfare Ship
20 tons Minesweeping gear
10 tons Minerail
70tons reload mines

or:

Anti Submarine Warfare Ship
2 DC thrower @ 10 tons
2 DC rails @ 7.5 tons
100 DC reload; DC 50kg = 5tons
10 tons sonar
10 tons hydrophone
40 tons storage

Quoted from "BruceDuncan"

I see three classes of issues with this quartet of proposals.

* The multi purpose boat has no sonar; its organic ASW capabilities will be extremely limited.

Quoted

* The Huangfen III has hydrophones but no ASW equipment - and it is somewhat short-ranged.

Quoted

* The destroyer escort looks rather like an OTL British Hunt class escort destroyer. It is far too long-legged unless China is expecting to escort convoys all the way to Durban or points west.

Quoted from "BruceDuncan"

I see three classes of issues with this quartet of proposals.
Item 3
You are creating a logistics nightmare, where it would make more sense for China to simplify.

* The multi purpose boat intended to replace the Dagu class... Two 88mm guns, one 37mm gun, eight 20mm guns, two torpedo tubes

* The Huangfen III class... Four 127mm guns, eight 40mm guns, two 20mm guns, eight torpedo tubes

* The Destroyer Escort... Six 100mm guns, ten 20mm guns, no torpedoes

* The Multi Purpose Sloop... Two 105mm guns, six 40mm guns, four 20mm guns, no torpedoes

Why introduce both 40mm and 37mm guns, and both 105mm guns and 100mm guns, in competing designs? Springsharp wise there should be little difference between the two types of LAA guns and the two types of AA guns.