WesWorld

Britain sees FAR largely as irrelevant, that why we forged new ties with NATO and SEAR to meet each others needs on a mutual basis. The old boundaries are breaking down.

Great Britain is not going to sell these ships willy-nilly to any old nation that stumps up the hard cash. Politics is the main consideration. I very much doubt the Admiralty, nor the Foreign Office, would allow more than one to be sold to any single nation outside the Commonwealth, NATO or SEAR.

The 600 Ton Colonial Torpedo Boat was too ambitious trying to cram too much into a small hull. Since the S and T Class destroyers need replacing and they can't all be proper general purpose destroyers I've decided to add another 100 tons displacement and lengthen the hull to S Class length. Two twin 4in are now fitted and ASDIC added (sloop variant) and speed slightly improved.



700 Ton Colonial Torpedo Boat, Great Britain Torpedo Boat laid down 1937

Displacement:
677 t light; 704 t standard; 754 t normal; 795 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
280.63 ft / 275.00 ft x 29.00 ft x 7.70 ft (normal load)
85.54 m / 83.82 m x 8.84 m x 2.35 m

Armament:
4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (2x2 guns), 31.00lbs / 14.06kg shells, 1931 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1922 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.66" / 16.8 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.14lbs / 0.06kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 133 lbs / 60 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -
2nd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 15,988 shp / 11,927 Kw = 30.43 kts
Range 2,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 91 tons

Complement:
71 - 93

Cost:
£0.461 million / $1.845 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 17 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 6 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 332 tons, 44.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 292 tons, 38.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 77 tons, 10.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 4.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
354 lbs / 161 Kg = 11.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.430
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (40 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Stern: 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Average freeboard: 14.36 ft / 4.38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.9 %
Waterplane Area: 5,200 Square feet or 483 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 133 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.61
- Overall: 0.61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

The lack of colonial policing warships has led the Admiralty to demand a new class of ships. While the old C and D Class cruisers have a useful role overseas for policing sea lanes and "showing the flag" they are not well suited to duties inshore.

The new class of vessels have the following aims;
To provide coastal bombardment support
To drive off and destroy enemy light forces and supporting bigger warships from Empire coasts
To destroy enemy amphibious groups
Scouting duties and coastal patrolling
To "show the flag" on offical tours
To act as Station Flagships

These roles require economy of operation, good self-maintainence facilites, flagship facilites and generally better habitabilty than most warships for her crew.


General Class Gunboat, Great Britain Coastal Defence Vessel laid down 1937

Displacement:
3,377 t light; 3,651 t standard; 3,778 t normal; 3,880 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
364.29 ft / 360.00 ft x 55.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
111.03 m / 109.73 m x 16.76 m x 4.27 m

Armament:
4 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (2x2 guns), 510.00lbs / 231.33kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 31.00lbs / 14.06kg shells, 1922 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1922 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
12 - 0.66" / 16.8 mm guns (2x6 guns), 0.14lbs / 0.06kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 2,306 lbs / 1,046 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.50" / 64 mm 250.00 ft / 76.20 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,500 shp / 1,119 Kw = 12.40 kts
Range 4,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 229 tons

Complement:
240 - 313

Cost:
£1.725 million / $6.900 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 229 tons, 6.1 %
Armour: 918 tons, 24.3 %
- Belts: 186 tons, 4.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 219 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 497 tons, 13.2 %
- Conning Tower: 16 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 42 tons, 1.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,089 tons, 55.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 401 tons, 10.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,970 lbs / 4,069 Kg = 23.0 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.59

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.477
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.53 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 25 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Forecastle (15 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Mid (65 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 13.90 ft / 4.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 55.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.3 %
Waterplane Area: 13,432 Square feet or 1,248 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 551 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.46
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Equipment List:
Gunnery Director Radar Type 281 on main director
Air Search Radar Type 271
Surface Search Radar Type 272

Mein gott! A British Vainamoinen!

Slow... moderate armour... only four guns...

And yet I still like it. That's almost what I've considered building in Bulgaria starting after 1940.

I'm puzzled how it's supposed to perform some of the roles:

To drive off and destroy enemy light forces and supporting bigger warships from Empire coasts
To destroy enemy amphibious groups
Scouting duties and coastal patrolling

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
I'm puzzled how it's supposed to perform some of the roles:

To drive off and destroy enemy light forces and supporting bigger warships from Empire coasts
To destroy enemy amphibious groups
Scouting duties and coastal patrolling

Agree with Hrolf; too slow to catch up with light forces and to support even the old battlewagons; Amphious groups will be supported by ship larger and better protected than this one and is too slow for scouting duties.

This ship is designed with only one place in mind IMO; the Far East and the confined waters near Malaya and the DEI.

I've toyed with a 6x6in version with much better range and speed and armour. I like the 9.2in becuase it gives firepower (allied to radar controlled directors) which should offer a threat to any cruiser. Speed is not essential but I agree it could be higher. (Myself I perfer all warships to have at least 30kts but its overkill for this role).

Any invasion force has to take into account the threat these guns pose and it can tackle smaller navies easily enough and subdue the natives.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
I've toyed with a 6x6in version with much better range and speed and armour. I like the 9.2in becuase it gives firepower (allied to radar controlled directors) which should offer a threat to any cruiser. Speed is not essential but I agree it could be higher. (Myself I perfer all warships to have at least 30kts but its overkill for this role).

Any invasion force has to take into account the threat these guns pose and it can tackle smaller navies easily enough and subdue the natives.

I have no issues with the ship; I think is a nice secondary role ship but not capable of all the missions being asked to perform. If I have the resources I built a bunch of them but alas priorities, priorities.

A couple of photos of the RN's latest cruisers to be commissioned.


HMS Euryalus of the Scylla Class shortly before Excercise Gold Top, an commerce-raider hunting excercise carried out in the north sea in which she part of the hunting force


HMS Bermuda off Gibraltar during her working up period


On the gunboat; note the use of 4in secondaries which emphasises rapid-fire against surface targets rather than AA defence and easy to obtain 4in ammo which is widely used overseas and will equip the 700ton Colonial Torpedo Boats.

I like the General class and Colonial Torpedo Boat very much.
Both are what I think a military platform is to be.
A way of performing a duty with as low price tag as possible.
A destroyer squadron commander will think twice venturing in the area those kind of ships operate. A cruiser will have a headache with those guns.Add too the fact he will worry that the rests of the feared Royal NavyTM is just around the corner.

They have an added benefit of being a low value target.
Aviation will be sent at bigger larger targets before they attack those.

All in all I think they are a good idea. Although one only a rich power can pursue in any mining full number. Great second line ships.

Thanks for the kind words Marek, you've hit my theory on the nail. Make the enemy wary of what is around the corner and using low-value units to delay and harass while the prime fighting forces composed of modern CLs supported by modern BBs can intervene. And for Colonial patrolling why spend more than you have to?

I'm now looking at a destroyer fleet of 80 core modern fleet destroyers as a rolling improvement programme (8 per year means replacement every ten years) and then smaller vessels as multi-role Colonial types, maybe around 32 or so.