WesWorld

I am trying to make a spring sharp of a 39kt ship armed with 15cm guns and deacent seakeeping and still be able to pass the Design Rules for Gentlemen.

So far this is the closest I got.
I'm asking for Your help is this even possible too do?



Hans Muller, Black Destroyer laid down 1939

Displacement:
3 404 t light; 3 511 t standard; 3 710 t normal; 3 869 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
496,99 ft / 492,13 ft x 49,21 ft x 13,75 ft (normal load)
151,48 m / 150,00 m x 15,00 m x 4,19 m

Armament:
5 - 6,10" / 155 mm guns in single mounts, 113,62lbs / 51,54kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority aft, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (2x9 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 577 lbs / 262 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
15 - 25,6" / 650 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 88 120 shp / 65 737 Kw = 39,00 kts
Range 7 000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 358 tons

Complement:
236 - 308

Cost:
£2,807 million / $11,228 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 72 tons, 1,9%
Machinery: 2 162 tons, 58,3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 099 tons, 29,6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 306 tons, 8,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 1,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
875 lbs / 397 Kg = 7,7 x 6,1 " / 155 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,56
Metacentric height 3,7 ft / 1,1 m
Roll period: 10,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,12
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,390
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25,70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,56 ft / 8,40 m
- Forecastle (36%): 24,93 ft / 7,60 m
- Mid (50%): 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 15,09 ft / 4,60 m (13,12 ft / 4,00 m before break)
- Stern: 15,09 ft / 4,60 m
- Average freeboard: 19,36 ft / 5,90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 204,3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71,8%
Waterplane Area: 15 388 Square feet or 1 430 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 42 lbs/sq ft or 204 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 1,37
- Overall: 0,55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

This one won't work because you're over the 3000 ton breakpoint for the smallest, weakest ships. The best I've done so far are the Peruvian Indepencia class DDs, but they're only 36 knots. I could MAYBE squeeze another half-knot or so out of them by dumping the 88mm battery, but that's still well short of 39 knots.

I've always tried to sim the RL French Mogador class but to no avail...

Quoted

Originally posted by gaiasabre11
I've always tried to sim the RL French Mogador class but to no avail...

As have I, and my Kyustendil-class, at 35 knots, is the best I've managed.

This is disappointing.

My navy doctrine relied on this design and others like it.
It was spawned with Quality over quantity idea.

This navy(Black) battleships were monsters like Montana and Yamato
Heavy Cruisers were evolution of Panzerschiff idea.
Destroyer were more of a small light cruisers that large destroyers.

Two other navys ships are Your run of the mill designs.

I'm using SS Version 2.1a

Hans Muller, Black Destroyer laid down 1939

Displacement:
4 377 t light; 4 494 t standard; 4 683 t normal; 4 834 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
526,28 ft / 521,65 ft x 49,21 ft x 16,37 ft (normal load)
160,41 m / 159,00 m x 15,00 m x 4,99 m

Armament:
5 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority aft, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (6x3 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 524 lbs / 237 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 80
15 - 25,6" / 650 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 99 056 shp / 73 896 Kw = 39,00 kts
Range 5 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 340 tons

Complement:
282 - 367

Cost:
£3,361 million / $13,445 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 65 tons, 1,4%
Machinery: 2 640 tons, 56,4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 602 tons, 34,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 306 tons, 6,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1 355 lbs / 615 Kg = 13,2 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,38
Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 11,8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,11
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,91

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,390
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forecastle (36%): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Mid (50%): 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Stern: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Average freeboard: 17,83 ft / 5,43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 193,7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 64,4%
Waterplane Area: 16 312 Square feet or 1 515 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 79%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 287 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,71
- Longitudinal: 1,35
- Overall: 0,75
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Thing is it will loose its speed in anything but the calmest waters

Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
and that it will brake in half if some one looks at it funny.

It looks legal, I think, though the poor seaboat rating's not a good sign.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
As have I, and my Kyustendil-class, at 35 knots, is the best I've managed.

I've got one to 37 knots but it'll then have a length to beam ratio of 14:1 (yet still have stability of 1.10).

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
It looks legal, I think, though the poor seaboat rating's not a good sign.

Any high speed ship without 50 ft. worth of freeboard finds it's seaboat rating tank.

In general, Springsharp just doesn't handle high speed ships well. It's impossible to get a historical Shimakaze and similar designs to sim correctly.

Even going with large ships doesn't help much; I simmed a 40 knot Blue Riband winner and according to Springsharp, the ship has half the passenger accomodatons it should.