WesWorld

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Main: 1,97" / 50 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm

Why is the gunhouse face less-armored than the sides and the hoist?

Good question....

Mozaffer, Persia CL laid down 1915 (Engine 1938)

Displacement:
4 328 t light; 4 537 t standard; 5 100 t normal; 5 552 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
420,00 ft / 420,00 ft x 42,00 ft (Bulges 46,00 ft) x 16,50 ft (normal load)
128,02 m / 128,02 m x 12,80 m (Bulges 14,02 m) x 5,03 m

Armament:
6 - 7,09" / 180 mm guns (3x2 guns), 177,95lbs / 80,71kg shells, 1938 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
2 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
3 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
Weight of broadside 1 218 lbs / 552 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,00" / 76 mm 335,00 ft / 102,11 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Ends: 2,50" / 64 mm 85,00 ft / 25,91 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm
3rd: 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 0,79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 52 178 shp / 38 925 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 7 000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 015 tons

Complement:
301 - 392

Cost:
£0,697 million / $2,789 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 152 tons, 3,0 %
Armour: 680 tons, 13,3 %
- Belts: 388 tons, 7,6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 111 tons, 2,2 %
- Armour Deck: 181 tons, 3,5 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 429 tons, 28,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 067 tons, 40,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 772 tons, 15,1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4 702 lbs / 2 133 Kg = 26,4 x 7,1 " / 180 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 14,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,560
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23,00 ft / 7,01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22,00 ft / 6,71 m
- Mid (50 %): 22,00 ft / 6,71 m (13,50 ft / 4,11 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13,50 ft / 4,11 m
- Stern: 13,50 ft / 4,11 m
- Average freeboard: 17,83 ft / 5,43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114,1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,0 %
Waterplane Area: 12 427 Square feet or 1 154 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 418 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,90
- Longitudinal: 2,56
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I'd ditch the end belts to save weight and increase seakeeping myself.

And a final version

Mozaffer, Persia CL laid down 1915 (Engine 1938)

Displacement:
4 340 t light; 4 537 t standard; 5 100 t normal; 5 552 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
420,00 ft / 420,00 ft x 42,00 ft (Bulges 46,00 ft) x 16,50 ft (normal load)
128,02 m / 128,02 m x 12,80 m (Bulges 14,02 m) x 5,03 m

Armament:
9 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3 mounts), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1938 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised guns - superfiring
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
2 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1938 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
3 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1938 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
Weight of broadside 1 077 lbs / 489 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,00" / 76 mm 335,00 ft / 102,11 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm 2,36" / 60 mm
2nd: 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm
3rd: 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm 1,57" / 40 mm
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 0,91" / 23 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 52 178 shp / 38 925 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 7 000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 015 tons

Complement:
301 - 392

Cost:
£0,676 million / $2,706 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 135 tons, 2,6 %
Armour: 644 tons, 12,6 %
- Belts: 326 tons, 6,4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 111 tons, 2,2 %
- Armour Deck: 208 tons, 4,1 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 429 tons, 28,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 992 tons, 39,1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 760 tons, 14,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 2,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4 649 lbs / 2 109 Kg = 45,1 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,6 m
Roll period: 14,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,560
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20,49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23,00 ft / 7,01 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22,00 ft / 6,71 m
- Mid (50 %): 22,00 ft / 6,71 m (13,50 ft / 4,11 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13,50 ft / 4,11 m
- Stern: 13,50 ft / 4,11 m
- Average freeboard: 17,83 ft / 5,43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114,4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,0 %
Waterplane Area: 12 427 Square feet or 1 154 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 403 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,90
- Longitudinal: 2,58
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

You did the face/side thing again w/ the mount armor. And 7" is IMO to big for mount/hoist. I'd stick w/ the 15cm and try and thicken the deck more, I'd try to get at least 25cm.

Fixed the armor thing

Quoted

Originally posted by Sachmle
You did the face/side thing again w/ the mount armor. And 7" is IMO to big for mount/hoist. I'd stick w/ the 15cm and try and thicken the deck more, I'd try to get at least 25cm.

It was, I believe, done in real life with an 8" gun on the... ah, Pensacola-class CAs, I *think*.

Quite possibly. Hence my "IMO". Still, training rate, elevation..room for crew in the mount for reload..all rather lacking in a mount/hoist as apposed to a true turret/barbette.

Quoted

Originally posted by Sachmle
Quite possibly. Hence my "IMO". Still, training rate, elevation..room for crew in the mount for reload..all rather lacking in a mount/hoist as apposed to a true turret/barbette.

I'd agree, I think.

Not to mention that the general structural integrity of a mount/hoist is going to almost always be lesser than an equivalent sized turret/barbette therefore limiting the amount of armor weight the structure can support. Look at Pensacola, her turret/mount/whatever armor was only 4"/1.75". Not exactly imposing armor for an 8" mount. Granted mount/hoist doesn't require the deep holes in the strength deck that barbettes do, but all-in-all for guns with shells heavy enough to require power loading, or at least 2-3 men to hand load I think Turrets/barbettes are a better option. Of course at least here CAs are still usefull. Over at Navalism they're basically obsolete thanks to all the Large Armoured Cruisers/Battlecruisers/Armoured Frigates/Whatever the individual players call them.

Since I am not allowed barbettes on this ship the question is moot

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
Since I am not allowed barbettes on this ship the question is moot

Mostly, but I was intending to state that while guns larger than 6" HAVE been put in mount/hoist it MAY NOT be the best IDEA.