WesWorld

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MAS(G) Typo 1000

Displacement: 75tons
Dimensions: 35m x 5m x 1.5m
Machinery: 4 x Isotta Fraschini Asso Petrol engines, 1500hp each (de-rated from 1800hp) = 6000hp = 40knts
Range: 500nm @ 40knts
Armament: 4 x torpedoes (600mm/533mm/450mm), 3 x 47mm/54 fore, 2 x 20mm aft, 6 DCs
Complement: 20
Other notes: C-tubes, 10mm armour plate around conning position

Improved Dardo Class destroyer. Fully enclosed mounts for 130mm guns. New 130mm weapon which is 50 calibres long. Fires 36kg SAP shell and 28kg HE. Look here under 5.25"/50 for penetration. Reverts to unit layout of Navigatori Class. 2B-1T-2B-1T. 600mm TT mounted in quadruple mounts. More boats than Dardo Class. Same superstructure but mounting a single Typo 50 fire control director. 1 rack for depth charges over the stern, 200kg DC 25 carried = 5 tons. 1 projector forwards.

Speed is considerably slower than Dardo, but sea speed is greatly improved with 34knts achieveable in state 4.

Dardo 2, Italian Destroyer laid down 1928

Displacement:
1,500 t light; 1,592 t standard; 1,810 t normal; 1,984 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
388.94 ft / 377.30 ft x 32.81 ft x 12.80 ft (normal load)
118.55 m / 115.00 m x 10.00 m x 3.90 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 79.37lbs / 36.00kg shells, 1928 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
3 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns (1x3 guns), 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 331 lbs / 150 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 33.91 kts
Range 2,450nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 392 tons

Complement:
138 - 180

Cost:
£0.792 million / $3.168 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 19 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 897 tons, 49.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 523 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 311 tons, 17.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
511 lbs / 232 Kg = 7.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 11.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (37 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m (11.48 ft / 3.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Stern: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 14.78 ft / 4.51 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 64.9 %
Waterplane Area: 7,908 Square feet or 735 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.83
- Overall: 0.57
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

What method/rules did you use to design the latest MAS boats?

Regarding the DD-drawing: I think those boats are too small compared to the rest of her equipement (like the main guns). And if the turbines are in front of the boilers - should the funnels be further aft relatively?

Regarding the DD-sim: I think you should use "mounts with hoists" if we´re talking fully enclosed mounts. Otherwise ammo supply might be problematic and really slow your ROF down.

Regarding the MAS: Isn´t a triple 47mm mount a little bit large and heavy for her bow? I also think about the gun crew and handling space here. You need quite a few guys to supply such a gun with enough ammo etc. So I think you´re stretching things a little bit too far with that gun (mount). I also wonder when the first MAS or S-boats with armored CTs appeared historically. IIRC, this was 1942+ for the Germans but I´m not sure about the Italians.

I also second Wes: How did you sim the MAS´ speed and necessary power?

I wondered about the triple 47mm gun as well, it does seem like alot of weight for a 75 ton ship.

Quoted

Regarding the DD-drawing: I think those boats are too small compared to the rest of her equipement (like the main guns). And if the turbines are in front of the boilers - should the funnels be further aft relatively?

Regarding the DD-sim: I think you should use "mounts with hoists" if we´re talking fully enclosed mounts. Otherwise ammo supply might be problematic and really slow your ROF down.

The arrangement is BB-E-BB-E. I'm fairly sure it will fit looking at Navigatori. I might go back to shielded mounts for hte 130mm guns. And Bigger boats will come.

The previous MAS class used a single 100mm gun forwards. I think a triple 47mm will fit, but a duple or single might be better. An Armoured CT isn't hard. Just need to bolt a few bullet-proof plates each side. Still possible to shoot through the windscreen. To sim the speed/power I used good old esitmation from lots of stats from Conway's. Looking at the larger S-boats, they could make 40knts on 6000hp. The hard chine hydroplaning hull significantly lessens resistance at the expense of seakeeping, but even so I have 6000hp anyway. The S-boat I used as a comparator is late war, but diesels are heavier and I'm using aero engines. The weights should be similar.

I have been thinking about using data from various existing WW2 MTBs to create my own... but haven't done it so far.
And don't worry about looking at late war S-boats. I am looking even further than that for boats.
(Vietnam)

(Maybe I went a little bit too far ahead with that one...)

With regards to the MAS(g), planing or semi-displacement?

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10
I have been thinking about using data from various existing WW2 MTBs to create my own... but haven't done it so far.
And don't worry about looking at late war S-boats. I am looking even further than that for boats.
(Vietnam)

(Maybe I went a little bit too far ahead with that one...)

Water Jet drives are NOT allowed.....yet!!!

Shoots, I was hoping to give my dad's old PBR a test run back in the 1930s. Guess the old Jacuzzi jets with diesels are just going to have to wait.

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
Shoots, I was hoping to give my dad's old PBR a test run back in the 1930s. Guess the old Jacuzzi jets with diesels are just going to have to wait.

You'll just have to live with it, I do!
(I don't think some of the stuff I want to field will fly just yet!!)

Rats! And me wanting to build some Harpoon armed hydrofoils.

The triple 47mm AA mount does seem a bit large.
It might have been better to mount it on the after superstructure, firing over the aft 13cm gun - that would give it larger arcs of fire.

Hopefully hydroplaning hull. Hydrofoils do actually exist, they just weren't used by anyone apart from the Austrians.

Quoted

It might have been better to mount it on the after superstructure, firing over the aft 13cm gun - that would give it larger arcs of fire.

I prefer the midships mounting. The arcs are good enough. Later it might be replaced by a single 100 or 130 gun.

Quoted

Water Jet drives are NOT allowed.....yet!!!

Bummer! :-)

But what about the Walter Jet Drive?
:-)

I shudder to think......