WesWorld

Note, subject to change. Mac will probably want to tweak the design a bit.


El Cid, iberian Supercruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
23,006 t light; 24,116 t standard; 26,535 t normal; 28,470 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
795.55 ft / 771.00 ft x 90.88 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
242.48 m / 235.00 m x 27.70 m x 8.00 m

Armament:
12 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns (4x3 guns), 485.02lbs / 220.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4x3 guns), 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1920 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,749 lbs / 3,061 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.06" / 230 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: 5.91" / 150 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
82.02 ft / 25.00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 2.76" / 70 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.18" / 30 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 22.97 ft / 7.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.06" / 230 mm 6.69" / 170 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 9.06" / 230 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp / 89,520 Kw = 30.62 kts
Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,354 tons

Complement:
1,039 - 1,351

Cost:
£4.767 million / $19.068 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 743 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 7,433 tons, 28.0 %
- Belts: 2,848 tons, 10.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 494 tons, 1.9 %
- Armament: 1,526 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,391 tons, 9.0 %
- Conning Tower: 174 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,196 tons, 15.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,534 tons, 39.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,529 tons, 13.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,489 lbs / 18,365 Kg = 96.0 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.505
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.17 ft / 9.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Mid (20 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Stern: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.1 %
Waterplane Area: 46,898 Square feet or 4,357 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 763 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.07
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Note to Brazil: This may be a one of, but its still the benchmark for large cruisers that are not battlecruisers.

Capitan Tylor, built with El Cid in mind, is 5,000 tons lighter, much shorter in length, more (though smaller) guns, more deck but slightly less belt armor, and has greater range, but with a slower maximum speed.

Capitan Oyama will correct some of this, but in it's most recent design, it has only 9 main guns to El Cid's 12.

Of course there is folly in designing against a one of ship, since there are no other ship like this in the world that are not armed with battleship guns. (that I recall at the moment...Italy might have a 16 gun monster on 13,000 tons or so, and there may be more 12 guns treaty cruisers around or soon.) However this is the most heavily armed and armored cruiser in the world today I would think. Oyama will be close with about 1,000 tons lighter displacement.

Designing against one ship doesn't make much sense. There are still the 3xSanta Maria class, but I think they're going to be replaced fairly soon. They are more on a par with Tylor, with 10x240mm and 28knts speed.

Quoted

.Italy might have a 16 gun monster on 13,000 tons or so

But why would I do that?

I remember now, the light cruisers of the Pisa class. with 16 guns on less than an 10,000 ton hull...though not up to the heavy cruiser level. I'd forgotten which cruiser type she was.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral

Quoted

.Italy might have a 16 gun monster on 13,000 tons or so

But why would I do that?

In order to make your list complete. It's the Italian thing to do!
You have a 4x4 gun BB and a 4x4 gun CL. You still need a 4x4 gun CA, a 4x4 gun CV, a 4x4 gun CDS, a 4x4 gun DD and a 4x4 gun SS.
:-)

No. The Italian thing to do is to paint it red and race it.

Now I know she's pretty too.

She's the reason French cruisers do 33kts or greater.

Quoted

No. The Italian thing to do is to paint it red and race it.

All the ships of the Regia Marina as well??
:-)

2knts theoretical speed advantage isn't enough. Really need 4knts plus. El Cid's better seakeeping, virtue of the larger hull will ensure that she can maintain her speed better. After 10 years her machinery will be getting a little worn.

Isn't quite fast enough to have a clear advantage, but so far this is the best Chile has come up with that doesn't have 12 or 14 inch guns.

I still don't know if I'll build this or the battlecruisers. My heart is set more into this, but the battlecruiser will probably be more useful. Or I could skip them both and focus on a slower but 14 inch armed fast battleship (Kongo like, with thicker armor).

Capitan Oyama

Chilean Heavy Armoured Cruiser laid down 1931

Displacement:
22,026 t light; 22,913 t standard; 27,000 t normal; 30,162 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
737.52 ft / 720.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
224.79 m / 219.46 m x 28.04 m x 8.84 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 530.00lbs / 240.40kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (6x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1931 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,295 lbs / 2,402 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 115

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.50" / 216 mm 440.00 ft / 134.11 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 440.00 ft / 134.11 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.50" / 216 mm 4.13" / 105 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 4.13" / 105 mm 4.13" / 105 mm -
3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 8.50" / 216 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 150,000 shp / 111,900 Kw = 33.41 kts
Range 10,000nm at 20.00 kts (Bunkerage = 7,357 tons)

Complement:
1,053 - 1,369

Cost:
£8.406 million / $33.625 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 628 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 6,774 tons, 25.1 %
- Belts: 1,610 tons, 6.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 326 tons, 1.2 %
- Armament: 1,302 tons, 4.8 %
- Armour Deck: 3,371 tons, 12.5 %
- Conning Tower: 165 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 4,486 tons, 16.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,063 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,974 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,880 lbs / 15,368 Kg = 67.8 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.492
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.83 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.27 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.82 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Mid (50 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 24.91 ft / 7.59 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 204.7 %
Waterplane Area: 45,554 Square feet or 4,232 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 736 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Wasn´t there a pic of El Sid in the past already? CG should have access to it via LA...

An earlier drawing with bits from Wes and me. There were a few scale problems so I had a quick re-draw keeping along similar lines with a bit of communication with Mac.

yep, that's the one. wonky layout of the MA and all. I still like her

edit: I hope she gets kept and properly modernised

On the new drawing her funnels look kinda weird - out of proportion.....

I'd say the spacing is odd too. I'm curious as to how the forward set of lifeboats are placed in the water and the floatplane (not in the photo) would be placed on that turret catipult.

She also needs more lifeboats, she certainly has the deck space.

The new funnels do look a bit strange. Maybe I'll try and separate them a bit more, or trunk them into one.

I need another crane by the funnels for more boats. There is a collapsable derrick for moving the plane.