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Subiect: Doctrine for Polands Naval Command assets in Event of War.
Poland have 4 Nations that are of a treat in the baltic.

Table of content.

1.Nederlands
-1a conventional combat
-1b Asimetric combat
-1c Invasion event
-1d conclusion

2.Nordmark
-2a conventional combat
-2b Asimetric combat
-2c Invasion event
-2d conclusion

3.Russian Federation
-3a conventional combat
-3b Asimetric combat
-3c Invasion event
-3d conclusion

4.Waimar Republic
-4a conventional combat
-4b Asimetric combat
-4c Invasion event
-4d conclusion


1.Netherland are a treat to the navy as its fleet out numbers oure significantly.
Althou it never showed any hostaile intention and it is unlicly that Netherland will ever show any it is the porpose of this report to show way to conter act its naval assets in the unlicly event of war betwen oure two nations.

-1a conventional engegemnts are the fastest way to losing all of the navy to the enemy.
the nederland have the a large fleet polands combeined fleet will last about 10 minuts ageint the enemy Home Fleet ships if its luckie.

-1b Asimetric combat is also not a promising concept mechant ship may be converted to act as comerce reiders armed with field altylery and old torpedo tobes those ships may try to operate in the atlantic the middleterenian and the indian ocean, the problem is how to get the ships in there fighting positions they are to be send before the conflict starts drest up as simple merchant ships sailing under the flag of neutral nations.Those ships will most licky will be lost in short order as the nederland s fleet will send all its ships in the area to hunt them down the fatalyty figures are sugesting that non of those ships will remenig operational for more that 5 months.But it is the only way to hurt the netherland shiping lines it is eestameted that each ship manege to capturared sink 10 to 20 enemy merchantmen.The reiders captains and crew are to be volontary only as they will not make it home in any prerciveble future if the war starts.
Frog men attacks on the enemy ports is also a way to hurt the enemy targeting ships and infrastructure.Covert operations in enemy terytory coduct by navy inteligence are a must assasineting key offitials and personel accesing any dysident grupes and traing the in sabotage and urban combat.

-1c Invasion event for that we are relativly whell preperd the Hel defended region is the
key to Gdańsk the largest naval base in polish terytory,as long as hel stands polish navy is operational.Kalish is defences are the polish naval assaulth brigades and the fleet air arm.As Netherlands air force procietion is prety low(one experimental carrier) polish Fleet air arm has air superiority and air supremacy is a achewable oblictive.enemy long range bombers are the only are treat and oure strong fighter force can defend are coast however FAA is to be move to airfield further in land as enemy ships can destroy the coustals airstrips on the coast with heavy altylery bombardment.
If the enemy lands troops on the coast, naval assault brigades will be task with conteining the brigeheads FAA will target any airstips that the enemy will try to bild and desruped any reinforcment attempts.The Netherland population base is infufitient to fight war of atrition with us we can make them out last them we can mobilase 1 million men in first state of mobilizatin 3 million in second and 9 million in the last(last mobilization stage mobilazing all men form 12 to 65 years old and women in ages from 12 to 60 still manteinig rifle and ammunition production)

-1d Conclusion the unlicky hood of the war is great.The treat form netherland is large in
the first stage but theat to Polands independece is almoust non egsistant Netherlands
can not mentaind the lavel of loses that we are wiling to do.The enemy can hold oure
coast but attack on oure mainland will met with resistant that will stop them.

TREAT TO POLANS INDEPENDACE NON TO MINIMAL

2 Nordmark also has fleet that out number oure significly.Nordmark has histry of amfibius assaults in the baltic and hase strong landing capabilitys.Last war bethin oure to nations hapend in the XVII century when Poland defited all enemys naval forces it engeged heving an combained fleet mumering only 1 thenth of the enemys forces using the fog of war to oure addvantege stiking hard and fast where the enemy didnt ecspected this will not hapend agein the technology change and the same tactic are simply not dueble today.Nordmark made no treating moves.however this report is too evaluete the un licky and to preper of it.

-2a conventional combat is as allways the fastest way to lose all are surfice assets.
Surfice fleet may engege the enemy smaller groups of warships in the first days of the
war after that it hase to retreat to the polish coast line under the protection of FAA.

-2b Asimetric combat converting merchant ships to reiders is not to promising Nordmarks shiping lines are large but non of them are esential to they economy.
So we cannot cut of they blood line. Covert operations in enemy terytory coduct by navy inteligence are a will consist of assasineting key offitials and personel accesing any dysident grupes and traing the in sabotage and urban combat.Frog men attacks are to be conducted on the enemy fast warships destroyers and light cruisers ships that can be used to land troops and ammo at night at the coast.

-2c Invasion event nordmark can overpower oure naval assault brigades by sheer
number in the first days of the attack securing all of polands coast Kalisz cannot fall to the invader with it nordmark will gain a port with will be used to reinforce there forces Kalisz must be made defende to the last men,when the enemy lands all of
Kalisz port facylitys are to be sabotage every crain every pier blow up enemy can not
gain a fully funcional port all of oure battleships are to be sink in the entrence to the port to block it and provade altylery sopport.FAA is to provade the airsopport with the Army air force it hase sufitent number to gain air superiority nordmarks forces will use long range aircrafts and seaplanes they will also bild airstrips those strips will be attacked by FAA and AAF(Army Air force).Nordmark can go toe to toe with us in military loses fotunetly they will be in a choke hole the 200km front line betwine the East Prusia and Germany proper there we can stop them if that line will fall poland independence may by lost

-2d Conclusion.Nordmark can destroy poland it is more that able to take oure coast the war will propably go in the state of stallmate there and then we can stop them and then push them back if they brake the defence of the 200km line betwin the Prusia and Germany we are facing a treat to oure wery survival polish indepentence can be lost.If they wont brake oure defence we can push them back we are no treat to they independence but they are a treat to oure.
TREAT TO POLANDS INDEPENDENCE MIDDLE TO HIGH


3.Russian Federation is a treat of highest level to us althou they are non treatning and peacefull to us making no teritolial claimes.They military power is so great that any war with Russia will cost us dearly.It will be a total war.Navy involvment will be marginal.

-3a conventional combat as laways not recomended how ever loss of all of polands navy
wont have a large impact on the wars outcome.

-3b Asimetric combat we cannot fight russia with navy we may use a tactic of attacking neutral states ships wenn under russian flag making a diplomatic scandals but that can backfire.Reider war is point less every think that russia nead they have with in they borders.

-3c Invasion event russians may land an invasion to create a second front.I that event we will figth the te same way we fight Nordmark russian have smaller amfibius forces thou

-3d conclusion.The Navy will not play any important role in the war and most of its Assault brigades will be shiped to the east front.But we are a treat to them too we may stir ethnic unrest in Ukraine and Belorus
TREAT TO POLANDS INDEPENDENCE HIGH TO ENOURMOUS


4.Waimar Republic is now the Germany is also peacefull and we have frandly relationships with them.But there is some concerns about the east prusia and how we can blocake they acces to is by the fact of the curect geopolitical position

-4a conventional combat actally german fleet is the only force with we can actualy cose serious losses but they can out bild us they have 10 times the factory out put at first they will soser losses when they try to brake are blacade but in the long run we will lose.

-4b Asimetric combat.Raider war unprudent they supply moust of there resorces by land
couvert opps sobotage and frog men accions in they ports

-4c Invasion event as un licly as it can by the closes way to are coasts is by land but the army will have to assault the east prusia we cannot have the enemy at oure back we must capture prusia only then we can win the war.They can out last us they have the men and the resources
TREAT TO POLANDS INDEPENDENCE HIGH TO ENOURMOUS



Commodor Lech Gutek

(OCC I wrote this little essay for fun.It is not to antagonase any one just to put some prespective on my positon.Stuck betwin 3 super powers.
Do you have any comments or qestions?

And do you lake it ?

What about Denmark?

1b, I'm sure that you are waaay overestimating the ability of surface raiders.

I'd like to point something out; Today Poland has a Merchant Marine of 7 Ships. It is likely that she would have far fewer in 1929. Poland is primarily a land power and will trade with Germany or RF. Surprisingly, Fiji also has 7 such ships.

2. Considerably superior Nordmark naval forces sweep a large portion of the Baltic and sink anything that moves. They establish a beachead, probably successfully, and build up a large amount of forces before pushing to Warsaw. Why? I've no idea.

3+4. You're screwed.

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What about Denmark?

I forgot :-(

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1b, I'm sure that you are waaay overestimating the ability of surface raiders.

I dont think so mayby.
I wose thinking about SM Kormoran wich sink 34 or some think in world war II

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I'd like to point something out; Today Poland has a Merchant Marine of 7 Ships. It is likely that she would have far fewer in 1929. Poland is primarily a land power and will trade with Germany or RF. Surprisingly, Fiji also has 7 such ships.

Today sadly yes but in 1989 we had about 1000000plus tons BRT in 1939 we had a little under 100 Marchant ships.Today most of oure ships are sailing under flags of Honkong Philipines or other.

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2. Considerably superior Nordmark naval forces sweep a large portion of the Baltic and sink anything that moves. They establish a beachead, probably successfully, and build up a large amount of forces before pushing to Warsaw. Why? I've no idea.

Whell they have to get true 200km of front bethin prussia and germany that preaty short piece of land consiering that in 1939 poland mobilazed an army Million strong in two mounts

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3+4. You're screwed.

Yeah Royaly

But some merchant raiders sank very little. Operating 20 or so at a time just means huge strain on any resupply and the chance that they'll all be sunk by large comitmment of Dutch Forces. Just the threat will do more than anything else. Forcing a country to convoy means about 20% drop in efficiency.

http://p069.ezboard.com/falltheworldsbattlecruisersfrm1

There is a huge thread on this board somewhere about how Germany could have defeated GB. Basically its impossible. You might get some ideas.

Heh, Germany has a similar document, though ours isn't quite as grim reading. Yeah, if a shooting war erupts with most any of Poland's neighbors, the best thing to do is to quick get an ally who'll support you.

Either Russia or Germany is, for obvious reasons, the worst possible enemy, because they don't have a choke point (the sea) to move their armies across Poland's borders. And both are historically stronger on land than they are at sea, which just makes matters worse. Right now, as you noted, Germany's not a threat, Poland's actually got a larger army than Germany does at this time. But long term, yeah, Germany must be counted as a potential threat, even if she turns out not to be.

The Nords are certainly a more likely foe than the Dutch, and on your home ground I'd think you might have a reasonable chance of repelling a 1920s amphibious invasion. Keeping control of any actual ports would be, as noted, crucial, the invader could not be allowed to gain a working port. Mines, bombs, long range artillery, sabotage, etc, all should be called on if necessary to keep an invader who comes from the sea from getting control of a working port.

Nordmark also has a relatively powerful airforce which works in close co-operation with the Navy

I wrote the article after readning WAT(polish Westpoint) manual on history of warfare.
It wose the grimest book i ever read full of total war scenarios and attriton and terrorist acts using civilants as live shields, weapons of massdestuction and the like.

In RL only nation that got close to destroying poland in war single handed whose the Sweden.

A good article, but some details could be added:

-Dealing with Lithuania and Latvia

-River operations to support your army's defensive lines

-What the fleet does if/when Gdansk falls.

Some random thoughts:

-A war with Germany would be fought on a couple of fronts - how would Poland deal with this?

-How does Poland view the notion of pre-emptive attacks when war is eminent? And can Poland launch such attacks effectively?

-Where is Polish merchant shipping to be found, and how will it be protected?

-With the possible exception of a Nordish invasion, the Polish navy probably can't prevent the defeat and destruction of the Polish nation. So it shouldn't try to do so. What it should do is use sea denial tools to delay the attacks, to make them as expensive as possible, to hold out as long as possible for both military purposes and for morale. Every day your nation holds out is another day you might gain a reprieve or an ally.

From that perspective, your grim WAT book is not off-base: if threatened with its national survival, the Polish navy should be willing to take some very drastic and unusual steps to combat that threat.

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Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
A good article, but some details could be added:

-Dealing with Lithuania and Latvia

Thot about that decided agaits adding them no treat as they cannot invade poland and poland cannot invade them

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-River operations to support your army's defensive lines

River fleet consist of speed bouts to act as curiers. poland rivers are all wery sholow no river monitors

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-What the fleet does if/when Gdansk falls.

Its THE END for polish fleet .If Gdansk falls that mean that the enemy have all of polands coast.

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Some random thoughts:

-A war with Germany would be fought on a couple of fronts - how would Poland deal with this?

Try to invade the east prussia.Then deal with the germany proper.

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-How does Poland view the notion of pre-emptive attacks when war is eminent? And can Poland launch such attacks effectively?

Poland in favor of pre-emptive attacks.Can it launch such an attack? NO

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-Where is Polish merchant shipping to be found, and how will it be protected?

Polish merchant shipping is operating from Gdansk and Kalish.It ship sail the oceans delivering sulfer,coel and agricultural goods.It cannot be protected by the polish navy out side the polish teritolial water.

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-With the possible exception of a Nordish invasion, the Polish navy probably can't prevent the defeat and destruction of the Polish nation. So it shouldn't try to do so. What it should do is use sea denial tools to delay the attacks, to make them as expensive as possible, to hold out as long as possible for both military purposes and for morale. Every day your nation holds out is another day you might gain a reprieve or an ally.

Poland can try to block the sea ways from Germany to East prusia thats all.

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From that perspective, your grim WAT book is not off-base: if threatened with its national survival, the Polish navy should be willing to take some very drastic and unusual steps to combat that threat

Yes.Historicly poland only stoped short of kamikaze style campain.In Wesworld im bilding a fleet that is spetialiased in night torpedo combat im bilding cruiser that carry 12 torpedo bourd side and planing an long range subs that will terorize the sea lines laying mines in haurbors and land covert opps on enemy terytory,converted merchant ships to raiders.Im also thinking about midget subs and MTB but that is work in progers.

Lithuania can invade Poland, but that's not the point. Wars start for reasons other than invasion: it could be over port fees, or fishing rights, or some other seemingly innocent matter.

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Its THE END for polish fleet .If Gdansk falls that mean that the enemy have all of polands coast.

Only if they leave Gdansk to last. To me, it would make more sense for an enemy to hit it first in hopes that the Polish fleet has no back-up plans. If it turns out you've got little depots to supply MTB and coastal submarines at every town and village along your coast, I'll probably find out the hard way.

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Poland in favor of pre-emptive attacks.Can it launch such an attack? NO

Sure you can, and the last part of your post indicates that you'll have the tools you need to do so. You don't need to pull a Pearl Harbour on somebody - but if you close their main harbour for a few days because it's got to be swept, and you put a torpedo into one of their battleships, and blow up the tank farm at another port - sure, you've technically started the war, but you've reduced the odds against you.

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Originally posted by The Rock Doctor
Lithuania can invade Poland, but that's not the point. Wars start for reasons other than invasion: it could be over port fees, or fishing rights, or some other seemingly innocent matters.

You got me there but that will be done by land forces navy can blocade there ports.

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Only if they leave Gdansk to last. To me, it would make more sense for an enemy to hit it first in hopes that the Polish fleet has no back-up plans. If it turns out you've got little depots to supply MTB and coastal submarines at every town and village along your coast, I'll probably find out the hard way.

By the time Gdansk fall Kalisz will fall 4 times over.Gdansk hase Westerplatte and Hel forterces defending it.If the enemy goes for Gdansk they meet the strongest defences in Wesworld poland not even
Warsaw hase the level of defence.Germany can go for it from prussia but doing so they will ecpose they flanks.
Kalish hase enouth port facilitys to sustain all the navy also i have 2 port gdansk is just more defences.

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Sure you can, and the last part of your post indicates that you'll have the tools you need to do so. You don't need to pull a Pearl Harbour on somebody - but if you close their main harbour for a few days because it's got to be swept, and you put a torpedo into one of their battleships, and blow up the tank farm at another port - sure, you've technically started the war, but you've reduced the odds against you.

Yes but that in My mind a goes with out saying covert opps will try to blow up a ship or two, Port Artur style attack will be carry out.
hmm...enemy MTB at night in your port (drulls)

Heh, anyone wonder why Germany just let a contract for the examination of new coast guns?

Just how shallow are polands rivers? There are multipull small motor torpedo/gun boats (coastal and other) and motor launch designs out there.

Atlantis has a few designs building or in the works.

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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Just how shallow are polands rivers? There are multipull small motor torpedo/gun boats (coastal and other) and motor launch designs out there.

Atlantis has a few designs building or in the works.

Whell I dont know how the situation looked in 1920 but when I wose 12 id walked acros Wistula river.The water didnt get to my shirt and im a short person.

Poland had some river monitors historically, IIRC. Let me check my Jane's...

Ah, here it is. Jane's 1924.

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River Monitors.
4 "Type B" (not yet named), building by Zieleniewski Cracow, for completion in 1925. Displacement: 70 tons. Dimensions: 115 x 20 x 1.25 feet normal draught. Guns: 1 - 4.1 inch, 2 - 12 pdr., 3 M.G. Armour: Not reported. Machinery: 2 sets oil motors, each 70 H.P. = 9 kts. Complement: 35.

There were also four Vistula monitors of 110 tons normal with two 105mm guns, and six "Armed River Steamers" of 100-200 tons and two 14-pdr weapons.