WesWorld

Thank you for the prompt clarification.

I am in favor of adopting the proposal as now presented.

I am not happy with changing the rules in mid-game, no matter what, as I always have troubles to foresee the consequences for the remainder of the SIM.

However, if you are all in favour of it, I won´t block it. Probably it should just be stated that these are MINIMUM building times - so you can still use the old version of the rules (longer building times) without problems.

What do you think?

I just bring this up because someone believed it was already the rule (based on the post I first linked) and has been handling their refits on that basis. But I don't believe the majority of people were aware of this, nor have they been using it. Thus, I'm mostly interested in ensuring that everyone's using the same rule, whatever that ends up being.

Personally, for myself: I really have no preference for sticking to the old one, or moving to the new one. I've budgeted my two 1941 rebuilds for the original rule and I don't really feel like changing it, so whatever the majority decides, I'm fine with.

I have to agree to HoOmAn, i'm also no friend of changing rules in mid-game. My planned refit is also based on the present (old) rule and i'm fine with it. Whatever the case, the majority decides.

Well, let’s take a look at how the rules can be applied currently and under the new proposal. Personally, I think the timelines wind up all over the board in terms of reasonableness.

Consider 4 vessels :
Gruno Class gunboat – 1930 - 499t
Z45 Class destroyer – 1925 – 1,951t
Friesland Class heavy cruiser – 1923 - 12,482t
DeRutyer class BB as well --1919 – 30,397



2.2.2.1 Level 1: Manual Refits (Cost = 5%)

Say swapping out the 40mm AA for 40mm AA with new sites and replacing the single 13.2mm AA mounts with 23mm AA.

Gruno Class gunboat – old : 7d New : 3d
Z45 Class destroyer – old : 16d New : 8d
Friesland Class heavy cruiser – old : 32d New : 16d
DeRutyer Class battleship – old : 59d New : 30d

2.2.2.2 Level 2: Minor Refits (cost = 15%, except for ships of 2,999 t light or less --> 5%)

Here we are updating fire control
-Changes to radar: P
-Changes to gun directors: T
-Minor changes to superstructure (i.e. enclosing a bridge, adding a searchlight platform): T

Gruno Class gunboat – old : 7d New : 3d
Z45 Class destroyer – old : 16d New : 8d
Friesland Class heavy cruiser – old : 97d New : 48d
DeRutyer Class battleship – old : 177d New : 89d

2.2.2.3 Level 3: Major Refits (cost = 25%, except ships of 2,999 t light or less --> 15%)

For the Gruno replacing the 125mm guns with new models :
-Alterations to guns of 66mm-195mm not involving barbette alterations: P
-Changes to external armor belts: P (upper), D (ends, main)
-Changes to deck mount or turret armor: P
-Changes to conning tower armor: P
Gruno Class gunboat – old : 21d New : 11d


For the Z45 upgrading the hydrophones to a sonar suite :
-Changes to sonar: D
Z45 Class destroyer – old : 49d New : 25d


For the Friesland adding a deckhouse with enclosed sauna,
Aka -Changes to superstructure (i.e. lengthening or widening a deck, adding a deck house): P
Friesland Class heavy cruiser – old : 161d New : 97d
OR
For the Friesland
-Refurbishment of internal fittings for life-extension purposes: P
-Changes to deck mount or turret armor: P
-Changes to conning tower armor: P
-Changes to external armor belts: P (upper), D (ends, main)
Friesland Class heavy cruiser – old : 161d New : 97

DeRutyer Class battleship
Fitting new catapults for the aircraft and constructing a hanger (which doesn’t count as a deck house)
-Changes to catapults and/or above-decks seaplane hangers: P
DeRutyer Class battleship – old : 295 New : 177

Changing spreadsheets is one thing. Mine is also prepared for the next quarters/years and it was a mess to get there. I won´t change it anyway.

You also have to consider some of us have been through scripted conflicts with lots of damaged and strained hulls. To deal with that we struggled with the old rules, blocked docks etc. and I personally think it feels kinda odd (unfair?) to change it all now. If someone did not work to the official rules, he made a mistake and needs to correct it To change the rules instead, is turning the world upside down to me.

However, as I said above, I won´t block it if a majority wants it. As I understand it you are only changing refit times, not costs, right?

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
As I understand it you are only changing refit times, not costs, right?

That is correct. Costs stay the same, time decreases by 50% (except for a 75% rebuild where it decreases by 33%).